Aura effects and continuing damage

[Nikosandros]

A couple of nights ago, a character begun his turn close to a rat swarm. Accordingly, he was attacked by the swarm and hit. The attack also deals continuing damage.

Will the continuing damage also be inflicted in the same round?

 

[Nebulous]

A couple of nights ago, a character begun his turn close to a rat swarm. Accordingly, he was attacked by the swarm and hit. The attack also deals continuing damage.

Will the continuing damage also be inflicted in the same round?

I don't think so. I believe it starts at the beginning of his next round.

 

[James McMurray]

We do what Bruce Cordell does and switched ongoing damage to the end of the round (right before you save). It makes situations like this clear and avoids those times when you're sitting there with fewer hit points than you're going to take in ongoing damage, and so will drop at the start of your turn.

 

[Nikosandros]

I don't think so. I believe it starts at the beginning of his next round.

It's possible, but I'm not sure. In general, I have some confusion about the whole start of round thing.

In an older thread someone form WotC explained that the order of things like ongoing damage and regeneration could be decided by the player, but what about effects that last until the start of your next turn and auras?

The way I ruled it on that occasion was that first all effects that last until the start of your turn expire, then aura are resolved and finally the "proper" round begins with regeneration and ongoing damage. However, I'm far from sure about this decision.

 

[Nikosandros]

We do what Bruce Cordell does and switched ongoing damage to the end of the round (right before you save). It makes situations like this clear and avoids those times when you're sitting there with fewer hit points than you're going to take in ongoing damage, and so will drop at the start of your turn.

That's certainly an interesting house rule to consider.

 

[Kordeth]

We do what Bruce Cordell does and switched ongoing damage to the end of the round (right before you save). It makes situations like this clear and avoids those times when you're sitting there with fewer hit points than you're going to take in ongoing damage, and so will drop at the start of your turn.

See, I like those situations where you're sitting there, knowing you're going to drop at the start of your next turn unless a healer gets to you. It's another little moment of dramatic tension and required tactical thinking, rather like making death saves. I do have regeneration occur before ongoing damage, though, because it's silly for a character to fall unconscious, drop prone, and then instantly wake up again.

To answer the OP by RAW, though, Nebulous is correct. Ongoing damage happens in the "start of your turn" phase as described on p. 268. When a creature with an ongoing damage power attacks you, it's not the start of your turn--usually it's the monster's turn--so you don't take the ongoing damage until your turn in the initiative order comes around again.

 

[Nikosandros]

To answer the OP by RAW, though, Nebulous is correct. Ongoing damage happens in the "start of your turn" phase as described on p. 268. When a creature with an ongoing damage power attacks you, it's not the start of your turn--usually it's the monster's turn--so you don't take the ongoing damage until your turn in the initiative order comes around again.

Actually, no. In the OP I referred to an attack caused by an aura. That happens at the start of your turn.

 

[Stalker0]

Just to make it even clearer, ongoing damage not only happens at the beginning of the turn, it also happens before regeneration. There is a specific order of operations listed in the phb I believe.

 

[Kordeth]

Actually, no. In the OP I referred to an attack caused by an aura. That happens at the start of your turn.

Ahh, good point, I missed that. The rat swarm's aura attack at the beginning of your turn would count as part of the "other effects" phase of the start of your turn, which for consistency with other ongoing damage effects should take place after the "ongoing damage" phase.

Just to make it even clearer, ongoing damage not only happens at the beginning of the turn, it also happens before regeneration. There is a specific order of operations listed in the phb I believe.

Not quite--there's a bulleted list of all the effects that occur at the end of your turn, but it's not numbered and there's no specific order of operation directly stated or implied. When a list has a specific order of operations, it's numbered (as, for example, the Making an Attack section on p. 269).

 

[f.e.n]

The aura from the rats is an interrupt attack at the beginning of the pc's turn. I would rule the ongoing damage damages the pc that very turn.

Order count:
1. P.C begins turn
2. Immediate interrupt: rat aura basic attack takes place
3. Attack success: Damage plus ongoing damage
4. Start of P.C's turn routine (*ongoing damage, regen, other effects, end effects etc)
5. P.C can act.

As for Stalker0, i believe that is currently being debated on this forum somewhere. I would tend to agree with you on the order, but it is still unclear whether or not the order is set.

*EDIT* ah, that would make sense. But again, is this a set way to start your turn? I'll see if i can link that thread here.