Autofire static Reflex DC...

[kreynolds]

I was thinking about making this more fluid, and giving a +1 bonus to the Reflex DC for every 5 points your attack roll (including bonuses) exceeds AC 10. For example, if your total to the attack is +20, then the Reflex DC goes up by +2 (DC 17). If your total to the attack is +30, then the Reflex DC goes up by +4 (DC 19). Does anybody think this is overkill? I'm trying to avoid making a drastic change and would rather go for something more subtle.

 

[Unseelie]

Are you trying to ensure you hit when you autofire, or are you worried about the players dodging all of the time.

Try to remember that saves aren't going to increase as quickly as they do in 3e, and more importantly, they won't normally have access to buffing spells like Cat's Grace.

I, personally, wouldn't worry about it unless all of your PCs are primarily Fast Heroes, and/or they have access to magic.

 

[Fellwind]

Wouldn't it make more sense to increase the DC of the save with the number of rounds expended and then use the SPM of the weapon (approx 900 cyclic for the m-60) to determine how many rounds are used in the attack?

 

[kreynolds]

Are you trying to ensure you hit when you autofire, or are you worried about the players dodging all of the time.

Neither, really. Just trying to make it more fluid. The fast hero is the only base class that gets a decent Reflex save, so I'm not worried about that, but I see now that most classes are gonna have a heck of a time making the save anyway. Like I said, I'm not trying to go for a drastic change, but if even this seems drastic, please let me know. Perhaps a better approach would be to set the base Reflex DC at 12, then use the above method for increasing it?

Try to remember that saves aren't going to increase as quickly as they do in 3e, and more importantly, they won't normally have access to buffing spells like Cat's Grace.

I, personally, wouldn't worry about it unless all of your PCs are primarily Fast Heroes, and/or they have access to magic.

Looks like I'll have a fairly balanced party, so they won't all be fast heros. I'm not doing magic either, but instead psionics. Magic items and psionic items also won't exist, so beefing up saves and such is going to be extremely limited.

 

[kreynolds]

Wouldn't it make more sense to increase the DC of the save with the number of rounds expended and then use the SPM of the weapon (approx 900 cyclic for the m-60) to determine how many rounds are used in the attack?

Possibly, but I don't think I want to go down that road. All automatic weapons in D20 Modern have a cyclic rate of 600rpm to keep it simple. I do, however, allow the lowering of some weapons' cyclic rates, like the M-60, but this makes the target area smaller (10 x 5) instead of altering the save DC. Anything faster than 600rpm gets an increase in damage (rolled as separate shots each, not as one big shot), like the M134 I wrote up.

 

[Trainz]

Perhaps a better approach would be to set the base Reflex DC at 12, then use the above method for increasing it?

I won't personally change the normal mechanic for that, because it feels good enough for me as is in the rules. In fact, if you use it against a very nimble for (+15 on Ref save), than you just switch to burst (+2 damage dice). Simple. Some foes need different tactics to be overcome.

However, if I did want to play around with it, what you are suggesting feels OK. Maybe simply use the attacker's modified attack roll -5 as the Ref Save dc (or somesuch...)

 

[Ranger REG]

I was thinking about making this more fluid, and giving a +1 bonus to the Reflex DC for every 5 points your attack roll (including bonuses) exceeds AC 10. For example, if your total to the attack is +20, then the Reflex DC goes up by +2 (DC 17). If your total to the attack is +30, then the Reflex DC goes up by +4 (DC 19). Does anybody think this is overkill? I'm trying to avoid making a drastic change and would rather go for something more subtle.

Hmm.

Let's keep in mind that autofire is an attack OPTION, so if you're a high-level character with multiple attacks due to BAB, you can make as many autofire attacks, as you have additional attacks and ammo (each autofire expends 10 rounds), forcing the opponents in the area of effect to make multiple Reflex save.

Having said that, Charles Ryan introduced a feat that would increase DC by 5 more in the Ultramodern Firearms. Pretty brutal since I was considering a feat that would increase DC by autofire attacker's Dex bonus (i.e., DC 15 + attacker's Dex bonus).

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Autofire static Reflex DC...

Let's keep in mind that autofire is an attack OPTION, so if you're a high-level character with multiple attacks due to BAB, you can make as many autofire attacks, as you have additional attacks and ammo (each autofire expends 10 rounds), forcing the opponents in the area of effect to make multiple Reflex save.

That's one of the reasons why my thoughts on this evolved beyond what is in my first post. The more I thought about it, the more it made sense to lower the base DC and allow a chance for it to improve.

Having said that, Charles Ryan introduced a feat that would increase DC by 5 more in the Ultramodern Firearms.

If I changed the Reflex DC to a fluid one, I wouldn't allow that feat as is. Perhaps a version with a lesser bonus though, or a different kind of bonus altogether. Perhaps not at all. Something I need to think about.

 

[dkilgo]

I do like the base DC 10 and advance it formt here with the attack roll. That seems to be pretty balanced, and scales well with level advancement.

 

[Ranger REG]

Re: Re: Re: Autofire static Reflex DC...

That's one of the reasons why my thoughts on this evolved beyond what is in my first post. The more I thought about it, the more it made sense to lower the base DC and allow a chance for it to improve.

Understand. Are you using the "natural 20 = 30" rule with regards to calculating the DC?

If I changed the Reflex DC to a fluid one, I wouldn't allow that feat as is. Perhaps a version with a lesser bonus though, or a different kind of bonus altogether. Perhaps not at all. Something I need to think about.

Why not? I mean if you lower the base DC to 10, you can allow Improved Autofire feat to bring it back up.