AV2 Item power levels

[Mirtek]

1/ It's not balanced against Weapon Expertise or Implement Expertise. Instead, it's "balanced" against character loot planning. Basically, the times the distinction is important, it's for meta-game reasons -- and that can lead to frustration on the part of the DM or the player, since it's a conflict between DM and player, not a conflict between character and environment.

While this is certainly true to some extent, I don't think that's much more likey to cause such conflicts than the weapon profiency feat (e.g. if a swordmage has spend a slot on weapon proficiency (bastard sword) you can be certain he would be unhappy about getting a longsword in his latest parcel even if focused expertise would work with any heavy blade)

This is exactly the kind of boring bonus feat we were supposed to be rid of with the magic of 4e's fixed math. (This is a meta-complaint.)

Personally I am glad that these bonuses are still in, I like them the most. I would also never take any item with a daily power. An encounter power is the least I can accept and only if there isn't any even just half-decent permanent property to be had in the same slot. E.g. my belt/boot/head slot are / will be filled with the good trusty +1 to Fort/Ref/Will items and I don't miss any of the fancy "one time a day" item at all.

 

[Nifft]

(e.g. if a swordmage has spend a slot on weapon proficiency (bastard sword) you can be certain he would be unhappy about getting a longsword in his latest parcel even if focused expertise would work with any heavy blade)

That's true. Superior weapons & the related feat had already damaged the flexibility that I lament.

Personally I am glad that these bonuses are still in, I like them the most. I would also never take any item with a daily power. An encounter power is the least I can accept and only if there isn't any even just half-decent permanent property to be had in the same slot. E.g. my belt/boot/head slot are / will be filled with the good trusty +1 to Fort/Ref/Will items and I don't miss any of the fancy "one time a day" item at all.

Yeah, it's progress on the part of 4e to make it so you don't need to choose between raw power and cool tricks, but it feels like a design failure that you still need the raw power boosters at all.

Cheers, -- N

 

[kerbarian]

Some other notable items:

Blood Fury Weapon: Axe or heavy blade, starts at level 3. As an encounter minor action, you are considered bloodied for all purposes until the end of your next turn. So shifters can now have their racial benefits in effect 100% of the time.

Targeting Weapon: Great for party novas. Daily free action when you hit with the weapon (bow or crossbow). Until the end of your next turn, you and your allies can roll twice on attack rolls against the hit enemy and use either result.

Lots of weapons and implements usable as other types weapons or implements. The most significant are probably songbows, so that bards can use bows/crossbows as implements without the Euphonic Bow PP. Others are: Alfsair Spear, Totemic Spear, Totemic Warclub (weapons usable as totems), Convert's Symbol, Ioun-Blessed Symbol, Symbol of the First Spirits, Symbol of the Radiant Flame (holy symbols usable as arcane implements or totems when wielded), Battle-Pact Rod (rod usable as a mace), Staff of Divinity, Verdant Staff (staffs usable as holy symbols or totems), Iron Wand (wand usable as a mace, min level 24), Bradaman's Weapon, Weapon of Evil Undone, Lion's Heart Hammer (weapons usable as holy symbols), Pelor's Scepter (rod usable as a holy symbol).

Bralani Cloak: Not notable for itself but for some rules text. It has a daily teleport power, and it says "You don't have to end the teleport on the ground." So some circumstantial evidence that normal teleports do have to end on the ground.

Resplendent Gloves (heroic set item): +2/3/5 damage on any attack that targets Will. If it's an illusion power, you also get combat advantage until the end of your next turn.

Claw Gloves (heroic set item): +1d10 damage on beast form attacks when you have combat advantage.

Blade of the Eldritch Knight (paragon set item): Heavy blade with reach 5 for all standard-action melee attacks. Minimum level 15.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Lead the attack. As a warlord I don't need to focus on damage. That's the striker's job and the two-weapon ranger in my party does indeed have iron armbands of power. I'm there to ensure that the power that can potentially turn the tide in a tough fight hits.

Ok, so the argument is that if you don't care about the particular bonus that an item gives you, that bonus can never be overpowered? Or what?

Obviously there will be builds that couldn't care less about the iron armbands, because they don't care about dealing damage. That doesn't stop the iron armbands from being a terrible item to have put in the game.

Or, for that matter, luckblades, bracers of accuracy etc. From another posters admission: luckblades are good enough that it's beneficial to resort to carrying a pile of them around. That's usually an indication that something is wrong.

 

[Diirk]

Blood Fury Weapon: Axe or heavy blade, starts at level 3. As an encounter minor action, you are considered bloodied for all purposes until the end of your next turn. So shifters can now have their racial benefits in effect 100% of the time.

Well, that sure beats the Battlecrazed Weapon enchantment, lvl 4 for a daily property that does the same, but does 1/2 your level in damage to you for the privelege. Altho it does have a +1d6 damage while bloodied property. Not that it matters since you'd just draw and activate it once an encounter then go back to using your usual reckless/bloodclaw weapon

Resplendent Gloves (heroic set item): +2/3/5 damage on any attack that targets Will. If it's an illusion power, you also get combat advantage until the end of your next turn.

Claw Gloves (heroic set item): +1d10 damage on beast form attacks when you have combat advantage.

Blade of the Eldritch Knight (paragon set item): Heavy blade with reach 5 for all standard-action melee attacks. Minimum level 15.

These are just all kinda wtf ;/

 

[Ryujin]

What I don't get is, why do they have weapon focus (and racial weapon damage bonus feats), but have not yet introduced the same for implements. Clearly it's not overpowered since there are plenty of classes that can use weapons as implements now. What is so powerful about the wand or the rod, that having implement focus rod might break some other mechanic?

Also there is all this racial weapon support, but nothing for implements. How hard or unbalancing would it be to make a feat that lets a tiefling infernal warlock get +2 feat bonus to damage rolls with rods and pact daggers, or a feat that lets an elf wizard have a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls with wands and orbs, or a feat that lets a deva paladin have a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls with a holy symbol, or a feat that lets a goliath shaman gain a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls with a totem?

With an appropriate character build you can already add damage from a second implement via a feat. You also have the potential benefit of the properties of both implements, whether you have said feat or not.

 

[FireLance]

Ok, so the argument is that if you don't care about the particular bonus that an item gives you, that bonus can never be overpowered? Or what?

Well, the original argument was that dealing more damage may be popular, but that does not necessarily make it broken. In relation to some other points you raised, I also argued that a flat damage bonus may be static and boring, but that does not make it broken. Similarly, dealing more damage is beneficial to the character, but an item that allows a character to deal more damage is not necessarily broken either, especially when dealing more damage is only one of the potential benefits that the character might have.

Dealing extra damage could be broken - if the extra damage caused the character's damage output to be way out of line for a PC of his class and level. However, I don't think that +2 to damage at the upper Heroic tier, +4 to damage at the upper Paragon tier and +6 to damage at the upper Epic tier qualifies.

Obviously there will be builds that couldn't care less about the iron armbands, because they don't care about dealing damage. That doesn't stop the iron armbands from being a terrible item to have put in the game.

You may not like boring static bonuses, but that doesn't make the iron armbands of power an objectively terrible item.

 

[Mengu]

With an appropriate character build you can already add damage from a second implement via a feat. You also have the potential benefit of the properties of both implements, whether you have said feat or not.

How does a cleric add damage from a second implement? How does a shaman? What about a psion? Just because arcane casters with a dex of 13 and an investment in a second implement can get a bonus doesn't mean implement focus is not needed. Every(!) weapon wielding character has access to weapon focus. It's just odd that an implement user has to go through hoops to get a similar damage bonus.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

It just seems to me that the ultimate result of all the various static or easily accessed item bonuses to hit and damage is going to be that practically any (at least melee) character is going to end up with a bonus in practically every slot. Granted many of them may be items that are quite a bit lower level due to wealth considerations, but it still stacks up. Any given bonus is not all that big a deal perhaps, but when you have 6 +2 bonuses...

 

[Nightson]

...but when you have 6 +2 bonuses...

None of them will stack because they're all item bonuses?