[Avenger] To fullblade or not to fullblade

[Obryn]

I think the upgrade from Greatsword to Fullblade is a bit better than the upgrade from Maul to Mordenkrad, or Greataxe to Execution Axe. You get both a die size increase, and high crit.

The high crit part is where a fullblade would really be valuable to an Avenger, making it worth the pick. Otherwise, you're looking at about the same increase as Weapon Focus for 1[W] powers.

I agree with the above folks, though, that you should talk with your DM about reskinning the feat so it's a Greatsword, but you do cooler stuff with it. Nothing wrong with a good reskin to help you visualize your character better.

-O

 

[keterys]

The deva feat for adding Wis + 2 to initiative instead of Dex can be noteworthy.

I'd definitely look at channel divinity, domain, and multiclass feats. All potentially quite flavorful.

I wouldn't actually sweat the AC feats right away unless group dynamic made it necessary.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Power Attack requires strength. Avengers aren't really strong on strength (as it were).

Admittedly true. Still, it is not clear that spending a feat on fullblade is the best possible option. Lots of players jump at swinging the biggest possible weapon but usually if you look at it a bit its a pretty marginal upgrade.

 

[Mr. Teapot]

F
Depending on what Censure you choose, it is possible for your Avenger to have "too high" an AC. That is, if you don't get hit then a Censure of Retribution never triggers.

But never getting hit is very nice by itself. Censures aren't really supposed to be triggered all the time: they're about giving the enemy a choice between two bad options ("attack the Avenger and he does more more damage vs. not attack him and let him take out my friend", or "run away and suffer more damage or stay here and keep getting hit by this guy"). It's a way of discouraging a specific action, not a standard striker added damage feature. If you're not getting hit, then you must be doing something right.



Other feats to take: Skill domain is very, very good. Battle Awareness (Fighter multiclass in Martial Power) is good if you're not doing any other multiclassing. Channel Divinity feats can be interesting and fun, depending on who you're going to worship.

 

[mneme]

Admittedly true. Still, it is not clear that spending a feat on fullblade is the best possible option.

The best? No -- probably, the best option is starting with a greataxe and switching weapons when you've got a free feat slot. OTOH, if it's between fullblade and greatsword, I'm not seeing a lot of options that increase damage as well. Hmm. If we assume that 10-19 hits (+3 weapon, +5 stat mod, so likely), and a 20 crits, we have dpr(noncrit) increase: .75 * +1 (and +2 and +3 for full-W encounters and dailies). For crits, we have .0975 * +2+6.5 for at-wills, and 4+6.5 and 6+6.5 for 2W and 3W weapons. Doing the math a bit, that means you get an increase of 1.58 in DPR (-not- in damage per hit) for at-wills, and better than 3.45 increase at the top end in your big daily damage. This...isn't quite the performance you get from the Broken Bracers -- but is a better damage increase than you can get from any other feat (as an Avenger) that I know of. Of course, you can go in other directions -- if you're not starting out with a big weapon, you might go more controlly -- with powers that don't focus on big Ws, but instead going for effects. You won't be doing the striker job of "take down your mark" as well -- but you might do better at covering a single-target controller job when it's needed, herding your prey away from the big battle and making it fight you (more slowly) one on one.

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

I still think a Jagged Execution Axe is hard to beat...

19-20 Crit range
High Crit dmg
Brutal 2 property
D12

Now if I could only talk our DMs out of the belief that Magic is non-existent, the weapon you have should last you at least 10-20 levels, weapon mods? We don't need no stinkin' weapon mods, etc, etc,....

Until then, a weapon like that is a faraway dream.........

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The best? No -- probably, the best option is starting with a greataxe and switching weapons when you've got a free feat slot. OTOH, if it's between fullblade and greatsword, I'm not seeing a lot of options that increase damage as well. Hmm. If we assume that 10-19 hits (+3 weapon, +5 stat mod, so likely), and a 20 crits, we have dpr(noncrit) increase: .75 * +1 (and +2 and +3 for full-W encounters and dailies). For crits, we have .0975 * +2+6.5 for at-wills, and 4+6.5 and 6+6.5 for 2W and 3W weapons. Doing the math a bit, that means you get an increase of 1.58 in DPR (-not- in damage per hit) for at-wills, and better than 3.45 increase at the top end in your big daily damage. This...isn't quite the performance you get from the Broken Bracers -- but is a better damage increase than you can get from any other feat (as an Avenger) that I know of. Of course, you can go in other directions -- if you're not starting out with a big weapon, you might go more controlly -- with powers that don't focus on big Ws, but instead going for effects. You won't be doing the striker job of "take down your mark" as well -- but you might do better at covering a single-target controller job when it's needed, herding your prey away from the big battle and making it fight you (more slowly) one on one.

Interesting. So Avenger looks to be that case where it DOES pay to go from military -> superior. Cool. Might still be worth going for Weapon Expertise/Focus first, but then again maybe not.

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

Go with Githzerai. Take their racial feat that gives you the fullblade proficiency and a bonus to damage.

 

[mneme]

I still think a Jagged Execution Axe is hard to beat...

At 11th level? 10 ongoing isn't as good as 3d12 -- though it's better than 3d6, but there are very few alternative options to get an expanded crit range for an avenger who isn't built as a half-elven daggermaster (ie, "I can't hit with dailies or encounter powers. I am completely MAD, needing dex, str, wis, and/or mabye chr (or maybe just chr and wis and -some- dex). But I do have a kick-ass at-will that crits a lot").

Now if I could only talk our DMs out of the belief that Magic is non-existent, the weapon you have should last you at least 10-20 levels...

This...works fine (ish) if you use inherent bonuses from DMG2. But not so much otherwise, unless the DM is also giving you monsters that are a challenge at your level without level-appropriate gear.

 

[DracoSuave]

At 11th level? 10 ongoing isn't as good as 3d12 -- though it's better than 3d6, but there are very few alternative options to get an expanded crit range for an avenger who isn't built as a half-elven daggermaster (ie, "I can't hit with dailies or encounter powers. I am completely MAD, needing dex, str, wis, and/or mabye chr (or maybe just chr and wis and -some- dex). But I do have a kick-ass at-will that crits a lot"). This...works fine (ish) if you use inherent bonuses from DMG2. But not so much otherwise, unless the DM is also giving you monsters that are a challenge at your level without level-appropriate gear.

1) Persuing Avenger Dagger Master needs Dexterity and Wisdom. Nothing more. Seriously. -NOTHING- more.

2) Admittedly Ardent Champion Critvenger needs Dexterity, Strength, and Wisdom, isn't has heavy in the Dex department, but crits almost as often and for a TON more damage. But, it's totally doable so long as you rely less on your censure and more on your oath... and that IS something that Persuing is capable of doing with all the movement it gets.