Average AC and Hp of Core monsters, by CR

[Jdvn1]

Pfft. Maybe if the render didn't attack the first-level party and was already damaged.

 

[Land Outcast]

1 Bullete
4 15th level PCs

almost a TPK

Yes, the CR 7 bullete

 

[LeapingShark]

Nice info!
Why were CR 1 & 2 omitted?

 

[Goolpsy]

im afraid one cannot just make a table that way... those special abilities isn't taking into calculation here... Vermin = high life, low AC, low CR, Dragon = high life high AC high Cr. Demon Low life, average Ac, high Cr...

there isn't a ***Standard*** for monsters... and though one of you probably still keeps searching it.. im afraid you will never find it.

Its like comparing the average hp and Ac of 8 fighters, 1 wizard and 1 rogue...

 

[frankthedm]

Nice info!
Why were CR 1 & 2 omitted?

the system doesn't understand what a CR 1 or 2 is.

Elite orc barbarian compared to a common gnoll.

Sahaugin compared to any animal.

 

[Nail]

You know you have way too much time on your hands, right ?

Huh. My fellow gamers say that too.....they also mutter something about "obsessed"...

I hope you kept your data so you can give us the standard deviations.

Can do. I'm away from my (main) computer today tho', you may have to wait.

And - did you perhaps get average saving throws too?

Ugg. The database I grabbed that had most monsters (but not dragons, animals, or vermin) has the saving throw data in a bad format. That would take a bit of time to untangle. ...But it's do-able.

I don't know about the other 3, but many creatures from the Fiend Folio seem actually weak for their CRs.

Huh. Ever been attacked by the Blood Fiend? It's ouchy-broken for its CR, IMHO. Etc.

Sometimes they do, but not when its like many of the 3.0 demons who had a suite of spell-like abilities but were pretty much guaranteed to die before their first turn against any competent party that should be fighting them...

Exactly. IME, many of the monsters with lots of special abilities are meat by the end of round 1 because:

• They are easy to hit and have few hp (like Wizards! ), or
• They still only get one action per round...while the party gets 4 to 6 actions/round, or
• The DM has forgotten/mis-interpreted one or two key special abilities.....because there are too many to keep track of!!!

Nice info!
Why were CR 1 & 2 omitted?

#1) Thanks!

#2) 'Cause CRs up to 2 cover _alot_ of ground! Check out all of the monsters that fit into that category: 128 monsters out of 459 monsters in the MM. That's ~28% of the monsters under CR 3. There's just little point at taking an average of so varied a mix...as they really run the gamut.

 

[Nail]

im afraid one cannot just make a table that way....

Sure you can! I just did.

The "special abilities negate the basic analysis" arguement doesn't hold up. It's true they make a difference, but in the end, it's still all about hit points and AC. Always has (since 1e!), always will.

The only difference might be how you spell "armour", I think.

(And yep, average damage per round should be included in that "basic analysis"....but that's more complicated to calculate for each monster in the MM....more complicated and more time consuming, but not impossible).

Moreover, game designers have told me that they try to compare monsters against a "baseline" for each CR, and this is that baseline, stripped of clutter.

....more or less.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Off topic, but -- does there exist a database of the monsters in the SRD in a format that I could import into Access and play around with? Yes, yes, I know Access is not a haxor-riffic as using Perl or whatever... but I know how to program in Access, so there. Anyway. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

The "special abilities negate the basic analysis" arguement doesn't hold up. It's true they make a difference, but in the end, it's still all about hit points and AC. Always has (since 1e!), always will.

Um, not for example attacks and damage? I mean, even leaving special abilities aside, monsters don't (usually) just stand there to be chopped down like trees.

Not that the trends in hit points and AC aren't interesting. I just think saying "it's all about hit points and AC" is kind of ... not actually true.

 

[Nail]

Not that the trends in hit points and AC aren't interesting. I just think saying "it's all about hit points and AC" is kind of ... not actually true.

True enough.

As I said above, average damage per round is the third in the "trifecta" of relevant stats. It's just requires more effort to get.

Anyone interested?