(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
Only 1 post? That is interesting...
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NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
Avoid this vendor!
- Thread starter Sakzilla
- Start date
Darrin Drader
Explorer
I roll to disbelieve Shawn.
JacktheRabbit
Explorer
Baraendur said:
That would be a DC1 check.
JohnNephew
First Post
I don't understand the conspiracy theory, but I guess this is the kind of silliness that is spontaneously generated on the internet.
Citizen Games recently made an arrangement with Warehouse 23 to do their mail order (just like we did). W23 is a division of Steve Jackson Games, with a full-time staff that does nothing but mail order/e-commerce. Shawn reported that W23 filled his recent mail order, and it was delivered to him faster than he'd expected. Knowing W23's competence and attention to detail, I find no reason to disbelieve this claim.
Citizen apparently still has to clean up some business from the previous period of doing their own mail order. (I think, but am not sure, that their mail order previously might actually have relied on another company to actually fill the orders.) Shawn's good experience with the vendor now handling mail orders on behalf of Citizen does not contradict these claims.
Remember, Citizen is a publisher, not a retailer. Mail order is a side aspect of their business, and probably one that they've found to be more trouble than it's worth -- hence, they outsourced it to someone whose full-time business is doing it right (and having people dedicated to customer service as their primary job, for instance, rather than something that pulls them away from sending a new book to the printer or what have you).
So here's the thing -- if you consider it closely, Shawn did NOT actually say that Citizen Games handled his order well. In fact, his order (for Citizen Games products) was handled by a different company, Warehouse 23. If Shawn is a plant of some kind, this is not a very effective counter-argument to those who have had problems with Citizen.
Still, don't let that keep people from leaping to conclusions, demanding that moderators investigate who is really behind a screen name, and so on. This is the internet, after all, and it ain't over until someone's labeled a Nazi.
Citizen Games recently made an arrangement with Warehouse 23 to do their mail order (just like we did). W23 is a division of Steve Jackson Games, with a full-time staff that does nothing but mail order/e-commerce. Shawn reported that W23 filled his recent mail order, and it was delivered to him faster than he'd expected. Knowing W23's competence and attention to detail, I find no reason to disbelieve this claim.
Citizen apparently still has to clean up some business from the previous period of doing their own mail order. (I think, but am not sure, that their mail order previously might actually have relied on another company to actually fill the orders.) Shawn's good experience with the vendor now handling mail orders on behalf of Citizen does not contradict these claims.
Remember, Citizen is a publisher, not a retailer. Mail order is a side aspect of their business, and probably one that they've found to be more trouble than it's worth -- hence, they outsourced it to someone whose full-time business is doing it right (and having people dedicated to customer service as their primary job, for instance, rather than something that pulls them away from sending a new book to the printer or what have you).
So here's the thing -- if you consider it closely, Shawn did NOT actually say that Citizen Games handled his order well. In fact, his order (for Citizen Games products) was handled by a different company, Warehouse 23. If Shawn is a plant of some kind, this is not a very effective counter-argument to those who have had problems with Citizen.
Still, don't let that keep people from leaping to conclusions, demanding that moderators investigate who is really behind a screen name, and so on. This is the internet, after all, and it ain't over until someone's labeled a Nazi.
Ranger REG
Explorer
It's also a way to quickly spread misinformation as well, but I'm sure that is not what the original poster intended ... at least I hope not. (Don't take this the wrong way, it's in my nature to be cautious when I read things from the internet.)DocMoriartty said:
Perhaps I am not at the point where I like to air my grievance out. I'd rather do it the proper way, just in case I want to pursue legal action.
OBTW, I haven't ordered anything from them. I don't have a plastic, and that's a good thing. My cautious nature deters me from ordering online. I'll simply wait for their products to arrive at my FLGS, or order it through FLGS.
JohnNephew is right, not all publishers handle the mail order business and distribution.
Sakzilla, keep us apprised of citizengames promise to you.
I will keep everyone apprised.
I tend to order alot of my gaming stuff online, so when I hear about a nifty product like Masterscreen, I jump at the chance to be the second in my gaming group to get one. This transaction has thus far not worked out, but I'll have a little bit more patience and see what the mail man brings me. I hope their shipping issue is resolved quickly. I think the real boon of 3e has been all of the innovative publishers getting so many new and creative products and themes out into our hands. I hope this works out.
As for other posters 'supporting' a vendor, I say by all means post what your experience has been. And if your conviction about the positive aspects of your purchase turn a lurker into a registered contributor to this forum, then Hoo-rah. A community like this is only strong when the ability to have differing opinions aired exists.
As I said, I will revisit this post in a week or two when I receive my product, or to give an update that I haven't.
Now where did I put that "Summon: Mailman" spell?
I tend to order alot of my gaming stuff online, so when I hear about a nifty product like Masterscreen, I jump at the chance to be the second in my gaming group to get one. This transaction has thus far not worked out, but I'll have a little bit more patience and see what the mail man brings me. I hope their shipping issue is resolved quickly. I think the real boon of 3e has been all of the innovative publishers getting so many new and creative products and themes out into our hands. I hope this works out.
As for other posters 'supporting' a vendor, I say by all means post what your experience has been. And if your conviction about the positive aspects of your purchase turn a lurker into a registered contributor to this forum, then Hoo-rah. A community like this is only strong when the ability to have differing opinions aired exists.
As I said, I will revisit this post in a week or two when I receive my product, or to give an update that I haven't.
Now where did I put that "Summon: Mailman" spell?
jdavis
First Post
JohnNephew said:I don't understand the conspiracy theory, but I guess this is the kind of silliness that is spontaneously generated on the internet.
Citizen Games recently made an arrangement with Warehouse 23 to do their mail order (just like we did). W23 is a division of Steve Jackson Games, with a full-time staff that does nothing but mail order/e-commerce. Shawn reported that W23 filled his recent mail order, and it was delivered to him faster than he'd expected. Knowing W23's competence and attention to detail, I find no reason to disbelieve this claim.
Citizen apparently still has to clean up some business from the previous period of doing their own mail order. (I think, but am not sure, that their mail order previously might actually have relied on another company to actually fill the orders.) Shawn's good experience with the vendor now handling mail orders on behalf of Citizen does not contradict these claims.
Remember, Citizen is a publisher, not a retailer. Mail order is a side aspect of their business, and probably one that they've found to be more trouble than it's worth -- hence, they outsourced it to someone whose full-time business is doing it right (and having people dedicated to customer service as their primary job, for instance, rather than something that pulls them away from sending a new book to the printer or what have you).
So here's the thing -- if you consider it closely, Shawn did NOT actually say that Citizen Games handled his order well. In fact, his order (for Citizen Games products) was handled by a different company, Warehouse 23. If Shawn is a plant of some kind, this is not a very effective counter-argument to those who have had problems with Citizen.
Still, don't let that keep people from leaping to conclusions, demanding that moderators investigate who is really behind a screen name, and so on. This is the internet, after all, and it ain't over until someone's labeled a Nazi.
I think the point was that somebody registered and made one post and has not been heard from again and that seems a little suspicious. It is always better to be a little suspicious of things you read on the internet, or do you think that hookers are drugging people and stealing their kidneys? Nobody labeled them a Nazi, they just pointed out that somebody happened by this particular thread, registered, and made a post to give their support to the company and didn't post anywhere else about anything else. Yes it could be nothing and no there is no reason to have moderators look into it (that is just silly) but in the nearly 1300 views this thread has had there has only been one positive post and it's by a person with no previous posting history.
I think that it is great that the company responded and I hope they make everything right, after all this is a business not happy lovey time, anything that gets things done correctly is a good thing and if it puts off somebody elses complaint well then there is a bigger problem here. After a month or two with no product or explination then the person who isn't raising a big stink shouldn't complain about the people who just want what they paid for, if they are happy with waiting months for a product then they shouldn't mind, if they do mind then they should also be raising a fuss. There is no such thing as cutting in line to get satisfaction on a order after waiting several months to get it.
JacktheRabbit
Explorer
jdavis said:
I might be a little less suspicious if the new poster at least had a profile. But other than a link to a website he has no information at all.
hrafnagud
First Post
I find it hard to believe anybody would consider it poor form to warn his peer group of potential fraud. Gladly, there seems to be a number of people who recognize the value of such a move.
Given the situation, I had considered the money forever lost. My intent in posting was two-fold; to get my $25 worth by bringing the situation to light, and to possibly shake the tree enough to elicit a response.
I would be remiss if I didn't point out that Mr. Stone has since contacted me, and it appears the situation will be resolved to my satisfaction. This is a far cry from being completely blown off, and I yet retain some hope that I will see my product. Either way, I will make it a point to post my results here, for all to see, even if it is "just an agenda to push [my] complaint forward by airing out in public".
Given the situation, I had considered the money forever lost. My intent in posting was two-fold; to get my $25 worth by bringing the situation to light, and to possibly shake the tree enough to elicit a response.
I would be remiss if I didn't point out that Mr. Stone has since contacted me, and it appears the situation will be resolved to my satisfaction. This is a far cry from being completely blown off, and I yet retain some hope that I will see my product. Either way, I will make it a point to post my results here, for all to see, even if it is "just an agenda to push [my] complaint forward by airing out in public".
Sad update
Well it has been two months since I last posted on this topic. Two months of patience, waiting for the product to become available and ship to me.
Well I am still waiting, and it looks like this whole thing is a write off. As Citizen Games has submitted product for the ENnie competition, I would simply ask that any judges consider the character of the company alongside the quality of the product. The product, according to their shippers website, has come in and been sold out again, and they are waiting for two or so weeks to pass before they expect it back in stock.
Since Mr. Stone emailed me back in April that he would either ship me the old product (the one I wanted) or the new one within a week, I have sent five (5) emails to him looking for an update, with no response. Most recently was last night, and I got delivery errors. The phone number given in the above post is also not valid, having been disconnected according to the phone company message. I have also emailed d20guru@citizengames.com as was mentioned in an old post above, and that person has never responded. His email, at least, has not been cut off. He has simply chosen to ignore a customer's order inquiries. these two gentlemen are still listed on the contacts page of their corporate website. I suppose one of them should go down to the computer in their parents' basement and update those contacts.
I would love to hear that my order has been shipped. I would love to hear an explanation as to the delay. I would love to get just one of my email inquiries responded to. I would love to not hypothesize on why this situation has festered for 4 months.
Hey Citizen Games, which of these is the most likely explanation?
1. The dog ate your copy of my receipt, and you can't ship to me.
2. You fired Rob Stone and he deleted all your client records.
3. You have scammed your one thousandth customer and have decided to close up shop with the money.
4. You have been so busy defending yourself against criminal charges brought against your business by some sort of vast right-wing conspiracy that you just haven't gotten around to it.
5. You respond and fill in the blank.
Let me leave my fellow gamers with this thought. Give your business to a LGS or a trusted online shipper like the EN shop. Don't send your money to the thieves at Citizen games.
Well it has been two months since I last posted on this topic. Two months of patience, waiting for the product to become available and ship to me.
Well I am still waiting, and it looks like this whole thing is a write off. As Citizen Games has submitted product for the ENnie competition, I would simply ask that any judges consider the character of the company alongside the quality of the product. The product, according to their shippers website, has come in and been sold out again, and they are waiting for two or so weeks to pass before they expect it back in stock.
Since Mr. Stone emailed me back in April that he would either ship me the old product (the one I wanted) or the new one within a week, I have sent five (5) emails to him looking for an update, with no response. Most recently was last night, and I got delivery errors. The phone number given in the above post is also not valid, having been disconnected according to the phone company message. I have also emailed d20guru@citizengames.com as was mentioned in an old post above, and that person has never responded. His email, at least, has not been cut off. He has simply chosen to ignore a customer's order inquiries. these two gentlemen are still listed on the contacts page of their corporate website. I suppose one of them should go down to the computer in their parents' basement and update those contacts.
I would love to hear that my order has been shipped. I would love to hear an explanation as to the delay. I would love to get just one of my email inquiries responded to. I would love to not hypothesize on why this situation has festered for 4 months.
Hey Citizen Games, which of these is the most likely explanation?
1. The dog ate your copy of my receipt, and you can't ship to me.
2. You fired Rob Stone and he deleted all your client records.
3. You have scammed your one thousandth customer and have decided to close up shop with the money.
4. You have been so busy defending yourself against criminal charges brought against your business by some sort of vast right-wing conspiracy that you just haven't gotten around to it.
5. You respond and fill in the blank.
Let me leave my fellow gamers with this thought. Give your business to a LGS or a trusted online shipper like the EN shop. Don't send your money to the thieves at Citizen games.
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