D&D 5E Avoiding Initiative

[DM Magic]

I have the players roll initiative as they arrive to a session before we get started, “just in case” there might be a combat. Yeah, there usually is and we can just get down to it without any pause. I usually have rolled for the enemies ahead of time, if I have a good sense of what the PCs might encounter that session.

Then, at the end of that combat I’ll have them roll initiative again - if I remember, that is - so if another combat comes up we can dive right in.

This is exactly what I do.

 

[Ilbranteloth]

Do you disclose anything about what the opponents are up to before the players declare their actions? At least at low levels, an advantage to the players of INT-ordered declaration is that they often know what their (low INT) foes are up to before having to declare their actions.

And along the same lines, do you allow simple conditional declarations such as, "If the orcs charge, then I rush out to meet them, otherwise I stay behind the rock and shoot arrows."?

Also, if a PC has multiple attacks, do you allow target switching if a foe goes down due to the first attack? How about multiple target spells such as magic missile and scorching ray? (This is something that I have wavered on.)

The simulationist in me has always thought speed factors were nifty, but practically, it has never seemed worth the extra effort.

Yes to all of the above, although I will say our actual combat system is different now too, to allow more of it.

Essentially, the way I treat combat is that you are slicing it into sections of time (approx 6 seconds), and that the actions in that slice should work together to make sense. A goal is to be able to recreate a great combat scene from a movie, etc. One of the things that detracts the most from that is the turn-based action economy. We also separated movement from your action, that is, movement is continuous.

I'll tell the players about anything they could reasonably see. So in a prior example I stated that the fighter was charging 30 feet to attack an orc sorcerer, and that two other orcs were moving to intercept him. The players can use that information to decide what they are going to do. Let's go farther and say the wizard targets the orc sorcerer with a lightning bolt. The spell will resolve before the fighter moves 30 feet, and the lightning bolt kills the orc sorcerer. The fighter can use this information in real time to alter their action, for example, turn to run toward the rogue who is fighting another orc. When using the 5e bonus action/reactions, I allow a character to expend their reaction to initiate a dash, although in the next round they have to use their action or bonus action. A rogue, of course, can also use their bonus action to initiate it, and to maintain it in a future round.

So the fighter uses their reaction to dash, to ensure they get to the orc that the rogue is attacking in this round so he can make his attack, with the other two orcs hot on his heels. He wasn't close enough to provoke an opportunity attack, but he's also drawn the two orcs into reach of the rogue too. So the fighter has two attacks, and between the rogue and the fighter, they drop the orc. Since the other two closed in to attack, they do so (one against the fighter and one against the rogue) and the fighter wheels around to attack one of them.

Another thing I often do is resolve the moment completely. For example, when a character attacks a creature, the creature's return attack is adjudicated at the same time. It has a sort of cinematic effect where you're seeing a particular moment in the combat between two opponents, then you switch to another moment.

For example, the combat above might have been:

The fighter roars and starts to charge across the room at the sorcerer. Two orcs move toward the fighter to head him off before he gets there.

The sorcerer is in the midst of casting a spell, and the wizard casts a lightning bolt at the sorcerer. I might make an initiative check here between the wizard and sorcerer, the wizard won, and the lightning bolt kills the orc before it completes casting its spell.

In the meantime, the rogue is defending against the attack of another orc, the fighter speaks up when I start this resolution and asks if he can run over to help him instead. He has a reaction available, and is still within about 30 feet of the rogue, so he turns and dashes in that direction, the other orcs now following/heading in that direction.

The orc attacks the rogue and hits, and at the same time the rogue is rolling and hits too. The fighter reaches the orc and makes his attack, killing the orc. The other two orcs arrive, and attack the rogue and fighter. One misses the rogue, but the other hits the fighter. The fighter wheels around and attacks the orc, missing.

End of round. Two orcs are attacking the fighter and rogue, and the wizard is out of the melee and ready to respond if needed.

For multiple target spells, the way I see it, once the magic is loosed, it's going where you sent it. That is, they aren't guided spells that allow you to change their course. So magic missile says the darts strike simultaneously, so you couldn't change those. On the other hand, scorching ray requires a separate attack roll for each ray. To me, this doesn't seem any different than rolling a different attack roll for several arrows shot in quick succession. The simulationist side of me says that aiming at multiple targets in the course of 6 seconds in the midst of combat isn't possible with either. But the game side of me is OK with the idea that you can target multiple creatures, and if one falls, switch to another one. That's a question that I think needs to be answered by the table, and then be consistent.

For speed factors, I do use that as a shorthand for order resolution, reducing the number of opposed initiative checks. So a finesse weapon hits before a heavy or two handed weapon, for example. It's not set in stone, but it helps to adjudicate what happens when it's going on.

 

[fjw70]

Once I used an initiative variant where each PC and NPC had their names written on blank playing cards. Then during combat the cards where shuffled and play went in order the cards were drawn. It was quick, easy, and I loved it. However the players hated not knowing the order ahead of time.

Tried this again last night and it worked really well. I am sticking with this for a while.

 

[LordEntrails]

Tried this again last night and it worked really well. I am sticking with this for a while.

So, no impact for feats or ability scores... everything/one is totally equal and it's just random. If it works for you...

 

[fjw70]

So, no impact for feats or ability scores... everything/one is totally equal and it's just random. If it works for you...

Sort of. We discussed if someone has advantage on initiative or some significant bonus we could add a second card in the deck and he would go the first time his card is drawn.

Basically they just said as long as everyone gets their turn then they are okay with it.

 

[Sadras]

Static/passive initiative scores for PCs, roll for Monsters.

Lindybeige has a video trashing D&D initiative (though he's not a fan of the D&D system in general). He argues against basing initiative on dexterity. He argues that initiative is based on experience and skill, not how dextrous you are and suggests that your initiative shold increase with your level.

I'm thinking of combining these two ideas.
PC initiative = 10 + level/2 (rounded up) + modifiers*
NPC/Monster initiative = rolled by the DM + modifiers* (allowing for the uncertainty in combat)

*Modifiers allows for ability/feat/magic modifiers and/or modifiers for weapon/attack types.

Spells would affect the initiative with -x, where x is the level of the spell.
Weapons would affect the initiative with - x, and be dependent on reach and loading etc.
Other actions - searching & drinking a potion etc would have a standard modifier.

That would mean the initiative order could change from round to round depending on their actions, without the need for a roll by the PCs.

i.e. 5th level Wizard with a Dex Mod +1.
1st Round Casts Fireball 10 + 5/2 (Level) +1 (Ability) - 3 (Spell Level) = 11
2nd Round Cast Magic Missile 10 +5/2 (Level) +1 (Ability) -1 (Spell Level) = 13

Same could be done with a fighter who switches from a bow the first round to sword the following round.

EDIT: Removes the pause to enter combat for the commonly called roll for initiative.