jaerdaph
#UkraineStrong
He's probably better off not knowing (as would we all have been), but I will say that thread was some of the best performance art of my EN World career (until I got threadbanned) if I may say so myself.
Away a while - what's the situation?
- Thread starter Ry
- Start date
He's probably better off not knowing (as would we all have been), but I will say that thread was some of the best performance art of my EN World career (until I got threadbanned) if I may say so myself.
Flatus Maximus
First Post
He's probably better off not knowing (as would we all have been), but I will say that thread was some of the best performance art of my EN World career (until I got threadbanned) if I may say so myself.
I'll second that emotion -- I lol'ed but you did kinda lose it there for a moment.
jaerdaph
#UkraineStrong
Well, that I did, but I made up for it by breaking the record for having my comments deleted and replaced with the shortest red text moderated post in the history of EN World: "No." - Piratecat
Flatus Maximus
First Post
Well, that I did, but I made up for it by breaking the record for having my comments deleted and replaced with the shortest red text moderated post in the history of EN World: "No." - Piratecat
I salute you, sir. My goal in life is to get spanked with a single: !
Dire Bare
Legend
Nope!
While WotC has ended the original d20 license, several companies big and small continue to use the OGL to put out good product. Nothing close to the volume of the old days, but that's not a bad thing IMO. Pathfinder RPG by Paizo seems to be where it's at for folks still into 3e.
Also, WotC has a new GSL license that, while (much) more restrictive than the OGL, is still pretty darn open. A small handful of companies are producing great 4e compatible product under this license. However, with the success of WotC's online Character Builder, I think the smaller companies have a harder time selling the 4e crowd on products that can't be added to WotC's software.
Welcome back, Ry!
Long time no see, I hope all has been well with you. You said you've been playing some non D&D type games, care to share your findings?
There's a good article by Joe Goodman about the state of the industry around her somehwere, as well as the Greg Leeds thread on this board. I think the moral of the story is that 4e sold like crazy in the beginning, top three products of all time, but still pretty far behind 3.0's relaunch. WoTC took 80% of their "player" content digital through the subscription model, and allowing most players to decide to stop buying in bookstores/flgs's, and subscribe instead. I'm sure there's still a huge "overlap" of people who still buy a book anyway, but my guess is that book sales are probably down significantly on 4e, while subscriptions keep climbing. TPP support for 4e has been EXTREMELY sparse. You've got to hunt for them to find their product, or you can get to it through digital distribution channels.
The d20 game license has been dissolved by WoTC, and the d20 market has disappeared with it. The OGL remains intact, thankfully. Some d20 type support can still be provided through that, but outside of pathfinder, I doubt anyone could afford the expense of a print run, because sales have dropped off significantly. Paizo has spent from Gencon to Gencon putting on a clinic about how to create a market in the digital age, and their Pathfinder game has done superbly (selling out of the first print run entirely, which I've got to presume was pretty healthy). They are doing quite a bit of digital and direct distribution through their website in support of the PF line. I've not read any extensive or detailed review/feedback of the system, so I'd argue that actual use in play is still a shadow of 4e. Probably about the level of a Vampire: The Masquerade, type of a game.
Overall, the Great Recession was unkind to gaming companies, just like everyone else. There have been a few casualties as a result. The popular trend has been moving from tabletop RPG into MMORPG (and vice-versa) or into boardgames. Some of the boardgames have been really expensive, $100+. Check out boardgamegeek for the latest on which one's are gettign some traction. My personal favorite from the last year was the game Dominion. Simple to learn, challenging, with an elegant system, and high replayability. 2010 has seen WoTC refocus it's efforts in two directions for it's SKU product - D&D boardgames (could be sold through much wider distribution channels thanks to Hasbro's influence) and new introductory products and support to introduce new players to D&D (and therefore continue to grow subscriptions...). See the new "basic" line due at the end of the year and the D&D Experience program being offered through FLGS's.
If you read Morrus's "things are changing" thread, you'll see that ENWorld has altered it's strategy to provide/offer digital offerings on a monthly sub basis, and Morrus is considering how to grow revenues with premium offerings. It seems that from what we're seeing from WoTC and now ENWorld, this is the most successful, easily adapted model. The general feel from the pdf component of digital offerings is that there is an inherent limit to their success due to limited offerings/use (a few hundred), and that it is a method of providing "limited" support to push your brand if you offer digital pdf support/downloads at no additional cost (IPR, Paizo, etc.). Ed Healy spoke on our podcast (Amorphous Blobcast) about the fact that pdf's are really a flawed strategy because they don't fit or utilize the medium (digital delivery) well at all (episode 46).
Related to other digital offerings, it almost has to be mentioned that digital "content" is still evolving towards podcasting, blogs, apps, social media (fb), twitter, and video. Very interesting. The ipad is a great example of what's possible, and apps on a digital medium such as this, with 11 hours battery life, and extreme ease in transport, could prove to continue to revolutionize the tools that support tabletop rpgs.
Long time no see, I hope all has been well with you. You said you've been playing some non D&D type games, care to share your findings?
There's a good article by Joe Goodman about the state of the industry around her somehwere, as well as the Greg Leeds thread on this board. I think the moral of the story is that 4e sold like crazy in the beginning, top three products of all time, but still pretty far behind 3.0's relaunch. WoTC took 80% of their "player" content digital through the subscription model, and allowing most players to decide to stop buying in bookstores/flgs's, and subscribe instead. I'm sure there's still a huge "overlap" of people who still buy a book anyway, but my guess is that book sales are probably down significantly on 4e, while subscriptions keep climbing. TPP support for 4e has been EXTREMELY sparse. You've got to hunt for them to find their product, or you can get to it through digital distribution channels.
The d20 game license has been dissolved by WoTC, and the d20 market has disappeared with it. The OGL remains intact, thankfully. Some d20 type support can still be provided through that, but outside of pathfinder, I doubt anyone could afford the expense of a print run, because sales have dropped off significantly. Paizo has spent from Gencon to Gencon putting on a clinic about how to create a market in the digital age, and their Pathfinder game has done superbly (selling out of the first print run entirely, which I've got to presume was pretty healthy). They are doing quite a bit of digital and direct distribution through their website in support of the PF line. I've not read any extensive or detailed review/feedback of the system, so I'd argue that actual use in play is still a shadow of 4e. Probably about the level of a Vampire: The Masquerade, type of a game.
Overall, the Great Recession was unkind to gaming companies, just like everyone else. There have been a few casualties as a result. The popular trend has been moving from tabletop RPG into MMORPG (and vice-versa) or into boardgames. Some of the boardgames have been really expensive, $100+. Check out boardgamegeek for the latest on which one's are gettign some traction. My personal favorite from the last year was the game Dominion. Simple to learn, challenging, with an elegant system, and high replayability. 2010 has seen WoTC refocus it's efforts in two directions for it's SKU product - D&D boardgames (could be sold through much wider distribution channels thanks to Hasbro's influence) and new introductory products and support to introduce new players to D&D (and therefore continue to grow subscriptions...). See the new "basic" line due at the end of the year and the D&D Experience program being offered through FLGS's.
If you read Morrus's "things are changing" thread, you'll see that ENWorld has altered it's strategy to provide/offer digital offerings on a monthly sub basis, and Morrus is considering how to grow revenues with premium offerings. It seems that from what we're seeing from WoTC and now ENWorld, this is the most successful, easily adapted model. The general feel from the pdf component of digital offerings is that there is an inherent limit to their success due to limited offerings/use (a few hundred), and that it is a method of providing "limited" support to push your brand if you offer digital pdf support/downloads at no additional cost (IPR, Paizo, etc.). Ed Healy spoke on our podcast (Amorphous Blobcast) about the fact that pdf's are really a flawed strategy because they don't fit or utilize the medium (digital delivery) well at all (episode 46).
Related to other digital offerings, it almost has to be mentioned that digital "content" is still evolving towards podcasting, blogs, apps, social media (fb), twitter, and video. Very interesting. The ipad is a great example of what's possible, and apps on a digital medium such as this, with 11 hours battery life, and extreme ease in transport, could prove to continue to revolutionize the tools that support tabletop rpgs.
Ry
Explorer
Iiiiinteresting. Are there any OGL, d20-based games that are getting attention besides Pathfinder?
As for my trip into the outback, I've played a bunch of In A Wicked Age and have also played sessions of each of the following
In A Wicked Age
Fiasco
A Penny for my Thoughts
Sorcerer
Dogs in the Vineyard
3:16 Carnage Amongst the Stars
GHOST/ECHO
The Serenity RPG
Lady Blackbird
Burning Wheel
Mutants & Masterminds
It's Complicated
Universalis
Misspent Youth
Primetime Adventures
The Shab Al-Hiri Roach
My Life with Master
a crazy social experiment game
Inspectres
And on the boardgame side, I've played Dominion, Twilight Struggle, some game about gnomes on a soviet submarine, and Power Grid.
As for my trip into the outback, I've played a bunch of In A Wicked Age and have also played sessions of each of the following
In A Wicked Age
Fiasco
A Penny for my Thoughts
Sorcerer
Dogs in the Vineyard
3:16 Carnage Amongst the Stars
GHOST/ECHO
The Serenity RPG
Lady Blackbird
Burning Wheel
Mutants & Masterminds
It's Complicated
Universalis
Misspent Youth
Primetime Adventures
The Shab Al-Hiri Roach
My Life with Master
a crazy social experiment game
Inspectres
And on the boardgame side, I've played Dominion, Twilight Struggle, some game about gnomes on a soviet submarine, and Power Grid.
Last edited:
Aus_Snow
First Post
Attention? Well, one of the games you've been playing is one of those, I would say. M&M, that is.
Apparently, there will be a second edition of Iron Heroes. I believe the ongoing discussion can be found over at Okay Your Turn.
If I'm not mistaken, content is still being produced for Arcana Evolved, on a 'ransom'-style basis. A popular model in general, it would seem.
Speaking of which, there's e20, a game being made (thanks to the minimum pledge being met) by one of the designers of SWSE, or at least of some of the supps for it, IIRC. G M Sali? Or Sahli? Anyway.
Not sure how much other stuff is an ongoing concern, d20-wise. But I would wager that many of the OoP games are still being played heaps, regardless. For example, Mongoose Conan.
Mongoose, now though, seems to have shifted largely from d20 to RuneQuest, even to the point of re-releasing formerly d20 settings with that ruleset.
And I'm not sure where the bulk of Green Ronin's profits are - M&M? Dragon Age? A Song of Ice and Fire? . . .
Just a few observations. Could be I'm not up to date with a lot of it, mind you. You have been warned!
Ry
Explorer
Oh, as for findings... In A Wicked Age is the most consistent fun and greatest game I have ever played. In fact I was a 'game advocate' for it on the Canon Puncture podcast (link).
I could rave about the other games, particularly Fiasco, A Penny for my thoughts, and GHOST/ECHO, but In A Wicked Age still takes the cake.
I could rave about the other games, particularly Fiasco, A Penny for my thoughts, and GHOST/ECHO, but In A Wicked Age still takes the cake.
Ahnehnois
First Post
Trailblazer and FantasyCraft, both D&D reduxes, are getting attention.
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