[B.A.D.D.] Dragon Spell List Feedback

[Urbanmech]

Dragons shouldn't really need see invisibility since their blindsight is usually way better. Also maybe change one of the 6th lv spells to tensers transformation for even more hitpoints and combat nastiness when the dragon decides to "get messy."

 

[gfunk]

A couple of quick suggestions:

I would consider swapping in True Strike on the 1st level list. If a Dragon is Hasted, it can cast True Strike charge and do a maximum power attack. Our DM used this on us last week to devastating effect.

For 4th level, I would consider dumping Minor Globe (Dragons have insanely high saves anyway) for Dimension Door. This gives the wyrm tremendous advantages in its lair especially.

For 6th level, I would dump Globe of Invul for Antimagic Field. A Dragon would have such tremendous advantages in an A. Field that it's not even funny. If it manages to Snatch a spell caster, then it's all over for him.

For 9th level, I would toss out Wail of the Banshee and substitute it with Mordenkainen's Disjunction. This spell can truly wreck a high-level party.

 

[EOL]

Dragons shouldn't really need see invisibility since their blindsight is usually way better. Also maybe change one of the 6th lv spells to tensers transformation for even more hitpoints and combat nastiness when the dragon decides to "get messy."

Yeah I just realized the See invisibility mistake myself. I'll change it to something else.

Which 6th level spell would you trade for Tenser's?

 

[EOL]

Blues do as well, according to the SRD. Here's the list of accessable domains by color:

Blue: Air, Evil, Law
Red: Chaos, Evil, Fire
Brass: Chaos, Knowledge
Bronze: Animal, Law, Water
Copper: Chaos, Earth, Trickery
Gold: Law, Luck, Good
Silver: Air, Good, Law, Sun

Of course, all these dragons can choose from any spell on the cleric list.

-Tiberius

I'm having a hard time figuring out how these spells are choosen. I see three options:

1- They must substitute one of their known sorcerer spell slots for a cleric spell.
2- They get to spontaneously cast from the entire cleric+domain list.
3- Their spontaneous sorcerer slots have to be filled with memorized cleric+domain spells.

Which is it?

 

[EOL]

A couple of quick suggestions:

I would consider swapping in True Strike on the 1st level list. If a Dragon is Hasted, it can cast True Strike charge and do a maximum power attack. Our DM used this on us last week to devastating effect.

For 4th level, I would consider dumping Minor Globe (Dragons have insanely high saves anyway) for Dimension Door. This gives the wyrm tremendous advantages in its lair especially.

For 6th level, I would dump Globe of Invul for Antimagic Field. A Dragon would have such tremendous advantages in an A. Field that it's not even funny. If it manages to Snatch a spell caster, then it's all over for him.

For 9th level, I would toss out Wail of the Banshee and substitute it with Mordenkainen's Disjunction. This spell can truly wreck a high-level party.

These all sound like good ideas I'll edit the original list with these changes.

 

[gfunk]

Option 1.

Dragons simply choose spells from the Cleric main list or the specific domain lists and use them as one of their Sor spells known. They are treated and cast as arcane spells.

 

[EOL]

Option 1.

Dragons simply choose spells from the Cleric main list or the specific domain lists and use them as one of their Sor spells known. They are treated and cast as arcane spells.

Well if that's the case then we can create a second clerical spell list which shows which cleric spells(domain spells are more complicated than I want to deal with right now) would fit into the priority where. I propose something like this, where "S" equals the sorcerer spell from the main list. (So 2nd level would be Cat's Grace, Endurance, Protection from C/E/G/L, Fog Cloud, Blur)

0th- None
1st- S, S, Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, S, S
2nd- S, S, Hold Person, Silence, S
3rd- None
4th- S, Death Ward, S, Spell Immunity
5th- None
6th- S, Heal, S
7th- None
8th- None
9th- None

I realize there are a lot of levels with no clerical substitution, but arcane spells generally are better. Any feedback on this list?

 

[bret]

I would expect Endure Elements to be on the list of 1st level spells, especially for Red or White Dragons. Protecting against that first 10 points (5 points fire/cold protection, would have been doubled if it had gotten through) could be important and the spell lasts all day.

You should note that True Strike is best used by a dragon with the Power Attack and Fly By Attack feats. Cast the True Strike in preparation for a Fly By Attack.

Energy Immunity (from Tome & Blood) for Red and White dragons. By the time they get to 6th level spells, they are going to be absolutely sick of all the people whom open up with Cold (for Red) or Fire (for White) spells.


The thing is some of these spells are used in combination. You really need to give a very brief description of why a dragon would choose this spell over all the others.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Which 6th level spell would you trade for Tenser's?

Don't bother. Tenser's transformation won't be on the final list.

Endure elements should likely be the first spell a dragon knows; I'd change their list to:
1st- Endure elements, mage armor, shield, true strike, charm person

Anyone see a problem with this?

 

[Tiberius]

I realize there are a lot of levels with no clerical substitution, but arcane spells generally are better. Any feedback on this list?

Here are some suggestions for cleric spells in no particular order:

3rd: Deeper Darkness
5th: Slay Living, True Seeing
7th: Destruction, Blasphemy/Holy Word/Dictum/Word of Chaos
8th: Unholy Aura/Shield of Law/Holy Aura/Shield of Chaos, Symbol
9th: Implosion, Gate, Energy Drain

-Tiberius