[B.A.D.D.] Dragon Spell List Feedback

[Ridley's Cohort]

Not an official member of B.A.D.D. but I would like to chime in with my 2 cents.

I think Displacement would be a poor choice for a Dragon. Very poor if they have potential access to Improved Invisibility.

I would suggest as possible replacements:

Sleet Storm: Disrupts vision in a large area (40' radius), potentially affects movement if its prey is not Flying, and the dragon can swoop in take advantage of its Blindsight, flying, and maybe Flyby Attack. Keep in mind the 20' height of the storm when selecting a location to use this.

Blink: Probably better than Displacement because disrupts magic cast against the dragon. Lowers the dragons offense, but melee attacks and breathe weapons are easily replenished, the PC's spells may not be. A clever dragon may prepare an escape route through a 1' thick section of wall. The Blink should give him at least an 80-90% chance of successfully moving through. If it fails, it can try again with a second Move Action. A Rat Bastard DM will have multiple such barriers along the route to bleed away spells, so the PCs cannot follow quickly. Consider lining a few with metal for smartasses with Passwall.

Slow: The PCs will certainly have Haste. (Not sure about this one because it puts the dragon in reactionary mode when he usually should be taking the initiative.)

 

[MasterOfHeaven]

I don't think Dragons would really want Mordenkainens Disjunction on their spell list. Yes, it is awesomely powerful, but Dragons are notorious for their love of magic items, and a spell that ruins the items of the party the Dragon is trying to kill does not sound like something a Dragon would do, in my opinion.


There are many great spells at ninth level, and I can see Dragons of differing personality choosing different spells, but for sheer combat effectiveness I would go with either Power Word: Kill or Prismatic Sphere.

 

[EOL]

Don't bother. Tenser's transformation won't be on the final list.

Endure elements should likely be the first spell a dragon knows; I'd change their list to:
1st- Endure elements, mage armor, shield, true strike, charm person

Anyone see a problem with this?

Sounds good to me, I'll change the first post.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Standard list:
0. Detect magic, resistance, detect poison, read magic, dancing lights, ghost sound, mage hand, open/close, mending
1. Endure elements, mage armor, shield, true strike, charm person
2. Bull's strength, cat's grace, blur, endurance, fog cloud
3. Haste, dispel magic, protection from elements, slow
4. Dimension door, improved invisibility, detect scrying, confusion
5. Cloudkill, dominate person, summon monster V, teleport
6. Greater dispelling, anti-magic field, programmed image
7. Spell turning, greater scrying, forcecage
8. Mass charm, maze, protection from spells
9. Mordenkainen's disjunction, time stop, dominate monster

Cleric list (choose first):
3. Deeper darkness
5. True seeing
6. Heal, harm
7. Destruction

Any suggestions? Also, does anyone know which of the other dragons (gem, FR, OA) cast cleric spells?

 

[EOL]

Here are some suggestions for cleric spells in no particular order:

3rd: Deeper Darkness
5th: Slay Living, True Seeing
7th: Destruction, Blasphemy/Holy Word/Dictum/Word of Chaos
8th: Unholy Aura/Shield of Law/Holy Aura/Shield of Chaos, Symbol
9th: Implosion, Gate, Energy Drain

-Tiberius

Someone else suggested replacing Displacement so I will definitely put Deeper Darkness in it's place.

Cleric's do get True Seeing a level earlier than Wizards so I could see where that could be nice. I'm not sure about slay living, Dragons are already pretty good at killing...

For the 7th level suggestions Destruction is in the same category as slay living, and all the other spells you mention are highly dependent on the dragons alignment, They're good spells they just add to the complexity.

8th is the same with the exception of Symbol which is already on the wizard list, so that would be a substitution on the original list rather than the cleric supplement.

9th Gate, and energy drain ditto above, and 9th is already so tight I probably wouldn't add explosion.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Ridley's Cohort - thanks for the feedback.

* Displacement is a bad idea - okay, I agree. I'll remove it.
* Sleet Storm - I don't think so.
* Blink - good idea, but I'm not sure there's room.
* Slow - what, we forgot this? First round haste and slow should be standard tactics (followed by 2nd round haste and dispel magic or greater dispelling)

 

[bret]

I'm surprised when people were listing potential Clerical spells no one mentioned Silence.

Another thing I see missing is the various trap spells such as Alarm, Glyph of Warding, Symbol, Fire Trap, etc. I've always thought those would play a big part in a dragon attempting to protect it's lair.

 

[EOL]

I'm surprised when people were listing potential Clerical spells no one mentioned Silence.

Another thing I see missing is the various trap spells such as Alarm, Glyph of Warding, Symbol, Fire Trap, etc. I've always thought those would play a big part in a dragon attempting to protect it's lair.

I mentioned Silence. Symbol has been mentioned several times, and Alarm was in the original spell list, but got bumped for True Strike I believe.

 

[gfunk]

I suggest dumping Dominate Monster for Chain Contingency.

Then, swap out Summon Monster V for Raise Dead.

Then cast Chain Contigency with the trigger being the dragon's death:
1. Raise Dead
2. Heal
3. Haste

 

[CRGreathouse]

I suggest dumping Dominate Monster for Chain Contingency.

Sorry, but I'd like to restrict myself to core spells... chain contingincy with raise dead is nice, though.