B5 The Memory of Shadows

[Staffan]

The problem JMS had was he thought season 4 was going to be the last season, when he planned for a 5 season arc. So he had to try to wrap up the major plot points of the show in 4 seasons, not 5. He changed some things around, thats why season 5 was so weak, IMO.

Though apparently it didn't take all that much compression of season 4 - Intersections in Real Time was originally supposed to be either episode 4.22 or 5.01, and instead it was something like 4.18 (too tired at the moment to check it at the Lurker's Guide). Of course, there would probably have been a few more episodes between it and Clarke's defeat, but it was likely going to be something like what happened in season 4, when they resolve the Big Issue by episode 6.

I think a far greater reason for season 5's weakness was that Claudia Christian left, so instead of having Ivanova advance to fill Sheridan's shoes as Captain of B5, they added Lockley. AFAIK, the original plan also called for Ivanova to be the one who got romantically involved with Byron, with Lyta being more peripheral to the teep movement.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

I think a far greater reason for season 5's weakness was that Claudia Christian left, so instead of having Ivanova advance to fill Sheridan's shoes as Captain of B5, they added Lockley. AFAIK, the original plan also called for Ivanova to be the one who got romantically involved with Byron, with Lyta being more peripheral to the teep movement.

Lockey in many ways killed the show for me, I just could not stand her. Now Ivanova falling for Byron - that would have been very interesting.

I am cautiously enthusiastic for this project. My concern is that JMS no longer has the passion for the B5 universe, he just keps coming back to it because he thinks it can sell.

 

[Umbran]

Though apparently it didn't take all that much compression of season 4 - Intersections in Real Time was originally supposed to be either episode 4.22 or 5.01, and instead it was something like 4.18.

Well, think about hat again. If the season has 22 episodes, and you chop out 5 episodes to compress, that means you might be losing up to a quarter of the material you expected to have there originally, to incorporate stuff from what would have been the last season. That's pretty significant.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

My concern is that JMS no longer has the passion for the B5 universe, he just keeps coming back to it because he thinks it can sell.

That, honestly, is what I suspect, too. I'd be a bit less skeptical if the DVD sets were MSRPed at $60 instead of $100.

I also rather thought the movies got lame after In the Beginning (well, A Call to Arms was pretty good, but River of Souls and Thirdspace were, um, not). And, unfortunately, I thought Crusade stank. I watched the premiere, and another episode, and that was it. Ugh.

Sorry to be so negative, but JMS lost me years ago.

Brad

 

[Viking Bastard]

The first couple of episodes of Crusades were pretty mediocre. But these first couple
of episodes were made under pressure by TNT (or TNN?) executives. TPTB wanted
more boobs and brawling, in hopes that it'd be more likely to catch viewers and that's
what JMS gave them, just as long as further down the line, after the show had gotten
on it own it's feet, he'd get free reigns. When JMS realized he wouldn't be getting to
do what he wanted to do at all, instead to do the 'T&A in Space' show, he left and
TNT cancelled the show. This all happened before the premiere first aired.

The second half of the first (half) season, episodes which were actually filmed before,
the T&A ones, are much higher in quality and just as the show was starting to get
really interesting, it stops.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I'd like to remind everyone that the first few episodes of Babylon 5 were mediocre. The writing was uneven, the actors didn't have a handle on their parts. If I'd judged B5 from the same number of episodes as people have used to judge Crusade--or even Legend of the Rangers--I'd never have hung on long enough to discuver three of the best seasons of genre television ever made. (No, I don't consider that hyperbole.)

I'd have liked to have seen Crusade continue. I'd have liked to have seen LotRangers turn into a series. And I'm eagerly anticipating this.

 

[cybertalus]

I liked Crusade. I thought it showed potential to exceed Babylon 5 itself in terms of quality. Though it helps that I forgot to watch the very first episode, which was the one where TNT got their way on almost everything.

Legends of the Rangers..... bleh, didn't impress me. But as others have said, early B5 was bad too. Every time I watch the original pilot movie I still wonder how the show got to series.

As for this new movie (which seems to be right on schedule, since JMS said years ago he wanted to make a B5 theatrical film, but not until after Lucas finished up Star Wars), I'm not gonna make up my mind until I see it. Though I'm hopeful with Galen involved that it will be set after Crusade and wrap up some loose ends of that series.

 

[Kesh]

Crusade rocked. Yes, the TNT directive episodes weren't so hot... but the other stuff was priceless. I was very upset when it ended.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I think a far greater reason for season 5's weakness was that Claudia Christian left, so instead of having Ivanova advance to fill Sheridan's shoes as Captain of B5, they added Lockley. AFAIK, the original plan also called for Ivanova to be the one who got romantically involved with Byron, with Lyta being more peripheral to the teep movement.

I agree. I found season 5 to be completely blah, and I don't anticipate going past season 4 in my collection - the final show of that season was enough of a wrap up for me. The loss of Claudia Christian was very disappointing, Lockley was just irritating (and with made up instant background... what, she had been previously married to Sheriden??!?!? Give me a break).

I remember at the time that JMS didn't think he was going to get season 5 so he wrapped it up in season 4, but then had the opportunity for season 5 to happen... wasn't worth it IMO.

Having said that, B5 seasons 1-4 are my favourite sci-fi epics bar none, and they did things that I'd never seen in any TV series before (like the one when they are searching for the cure for the disease plagueing the Markabs... don't ever remember an ending like *that* one before!)

Cheers

 

[Orius]

I'd like to remind everyone that the first few episodes of Babylon 5 were mediocre. The writing was uneven, the actors didn't have a handle on their parts. If I'd judged B5 from the same number of episodes as people have used to judge Crusade--or even Legend of the Rangers--I'd never have hung on long enough to discuver three of the best seasons of genre television ever made. (No, I don't consider that hyperbole.)

Oh, I agree. I watched Season of B5 here and there, but it didn't really get my attention until the end of the season. A season later, I was totally hooked.

And as bad as some later stuff may have been, look at The Gathering. The makeup and costumes are absolutely horrible. I don't remember if the acting was bad, but it wasn't really the sort of story that captured my attention. I didn't care about it one bit when it first aired. However, JMS was laying plothooks and hints down even back then.

JMS has a great story behind everything, it's the fact that it's too unusual for tv (at least American tv) was it's weakness.

Crusade could have been a cool show, but I'm glad JMS dumped it instead of letting Turner's goons tell him how to run it.