Back in the day...

[buzz]

It may not have arrived in print until the DSG, but every DM I knew from 1980 onward used 'em. One of those unwritten rules that every referee seemed to use.

IME, I was the only DM who knew of one of these variants (from Dragon), and I used it maybe twice in 10+ years of playing AD&D1e.

I've heard many people speak of BD&D and OD&D the way diaglo does, i.e., a flexibility born of sparse rules and the creativity of the players, but I was never able to make them work that way. Maybe I couldn't see the forest for the trees. All I know is that I'm happier with systems that either provide a lot of rules from which I can pick and choose (D&D3e, HERO), or that at least explicitly present a basic, core mechanic that you can default to when in doubt (most "rules-lite" games of recent years).

 

[Belen]

Actually, in the context of character abilities, which is what we were talking about, I would disagree with you. Too many role-players of modern games confine their actions to what's on their character sheet, looking for the answer somewhere in their skills, feets, manuevers, or whatever the system of the day is calling it. I've seen too many players not think their character can climb a wall or swim or ride a horse or whatever because it wasn't on the character sheet. Is that a player problem? Yes. But one I believe is exacerbated by the "be all end all" system contained in 900 pages of core rules.



You can say whatever you like. But the proof is in the pudding. I and many others have been playing B/X D&D for 20+ years. Others have been playing OD&D for 30+ years. We seem to get bye O.K. However "horrid and horribly lacking" the system might be, I have yet to find myself unable to resolve a PC action for lack of resolution mechanism.



Because R.P.S. players are unmitigated munchkins. Who'd want to game with those uber-geeks. I tried to get into R.P.S. back at Gen-Con in '88, but the R.P.S.-master was such a tool. Besides, it's gone too commercial. None of the supplements put out since the 1992 were any good. Except maybe Fisto's Complete Guide to Rocks, Pebbles, and Boulders. I've exported a lot in that book to my weekly Tic Tac Toe games.



We always called it "role-playing".



We're apparently on such a different wave-length when it comes to rules, that I'm not even sure how to respond to this. Why does there need to be rules for it in the first place? If the player wants the set of abilities that comes with being a thief, he should be a thief. If he wants the set of abilities that comes with being an elf, he should be an elf. If he doesn't want to play the game, he should play a different game.

R.A.

Dude. You. Rock.

 

[diaglo]

ability checks in OD&D were done with 3d6

 

[MerricB]

ability checks in OD&D were done with 3d6

...if you had 3d6! We had chits! And we liked them!

Cheers!

 

[Aaron2]

Then it goes over the top, and it's "The greater the number of rules, the better the DM has to be..." because there's so much to remember!

That's what players are for. Why learn all the rules when one of the resident rules-lawyers can recite them from memory?

I'm the DM because I like to make adventures, not because I have all the rules memorized. Nor am I the DM because I want to be some sort of ad-hoc jr. game designer.


Aaron

 

[MerricB]

Interestingly, in my case I know the rules of the game better than any of the players (and I can remember most of them as well), but I have no idea as to the effects of many of the spells. I rely on the players for those.

Cheers!

 

[Aaron L]

therefore, i did include the thief and paladin from Supplement I... as guides for players who either thru time or effort (the lazy hand and a halfers) didn't want to build their own character. they just looked in the book and took what was written.

...

if the player didn't want to they didn't have to ... build their character. but usually they did. esp after they released just how open the rules system was...

I'm confused... were thier rules for adding abilities to your class? How do you "build" a thief? Can you add stealth skills later on? Truly, I have never played OD&D. If I understand correctly, the only task resolution systems you want are one for combat and one for magic, and the DM decides himself wether everything else works or not.

I must point out that I don't think OD&D is a bad system, I just get tired of seeing people making snide remarks about D20 and constantly saying 3E is nothing but power gaming and real roleplayers use OD&D. RP'ing is outside of rules. I RP in RISK sometimes.

 

[maddman75]

I'm confused... were thier rules for adding abilities to your class? How do you "build" a thief? Can you add stealth skills later on? Truly, I have never played OD&D. If I understand correctly, the only task resolution systems you want are one for combat and one for magic, and the DM decides himself weather everything else works or not.

Right. To build a Thief when the only classes are Fighting Man, Cleric, and Wizard, you simply have it as your background/concept that you were a sneaky fellow who steals a lot. If you need to hide from someone you probably can, the DM might have you make a Dex check to stay still or an Int check to find a really good place. And the DM will of course adjust the difficulty based on the situation.

Or he might even decide that you have a certain % chance to hide. Everything is so open, that balance really isn't a concern. So the DM is free to hand out suitable abilities without throwing anything out of whack.

I am must point out that I don't think OD&D is a bad system, I just get tired of seeing people making snide remarks about D20 and constantly saying 3E is nothing but power gaming and real roleplayers use OD&D. RP'ing is outside of rules. I RP in RISK sometimes.

LOL - I think Godwin's law ought to be extended to include the term "video game" when talking about 3e.

 

[RFisher]

You know, I really miss that brief time when I first discovered D&D & Traveller & I wasn't concerned with things like whether the character I wanted to make fit within the system. Instead, I just made a character according to the rules that were there & had a blast playing it.

I'm trying to have that attitutude again, but it's hard.

 

[Aaron L]

Right. To build a Thief when the only classes are Fighting Man, Cleric, and Wizard, you simply have it as your background/concept that you were a sneaky fellow who steals a lot. If you need to hide from someone you probably can, the DM might have you make a Dex check to stay still or an Int check to find a really good place. And the DM will of course adjust the difficulty based on the situation.

Or he might even decide that you have a certain % chance to hide. Everything is so open, that balance really isn't a concern. So the DM is free to hand out suitable abilities without throwing anything out of whack.

LOL - I think Godwin's law ought to be extended to include the term "video game" when talking about 3e.

So, it sounds like the system itself is irrevelent, it is the DM that you enjoy and you trust enough to do whatever he wishes, add any rules he wishes on the fly. You are truly blessed. Not all of us are.