Ditto.
Although I can definitely imagine (home) campaigns using campaign-specific backgrounds that are strictly more powerful (IIRC, War of the Burning Sky is an example for such an approach) But then you won't use any of the standard backgrounds.
Background benefits?
- Thread starter Dredly
- Start date
Although I can definitely imagine (home) campaigns using campaign-specific backgrounds that are strictly more powerful (IIRC, War of the Burning Sky is an example for such an approach) But then you won't use any of the standard backgrounds.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
The obvious solution is to just restrict the available backgrounds to those in PHB 2 and published afterwards. They all follow a standard "formula", are all balanced against each other, and the players can actually pick one that makes a character interesting and different from the rest.
eamon
Explorer
I think restricting the backgrounds to PHB2-style backgrounds is a poor idea.
I totally buy the argument that some of these backgrounds are possible to use cheesily, so perhaps you'll want to ban or modify a few.
However, the PHB2 backgrounds are singularly worse: they're terribly boring. Look, if you just want people to get an extra class skill or two, just say so. Prepackaging them like that just makes for bland characters; what happens is that people actually look through these published backgrounds and take those that exist rather than whatever they've come up with. The character builder exacerbates that flaw.
Many of the published backgrounds make no sense whatsoever, particularly those that follow the PHB2 guidelines. Regionally associated skill just don't work - they kind of suggest that every adventurer from that region must somehow be good at these skills - as if the region is full of detectives, cutthroats, athletes, acrobats, or whatever. In any case, I'd much rather the players read various backgrounds purely for fluff inspiration (incidentally, that was 3.5's PHB2 approach) and let them come up with a an appropriate bonus - or even just choose anything - after all, the bonuses are mechanically limited so you don't need to find any preexisting background.
I find the "associated skill" mechanic distracts from the actual background.
The backgrounds of the scales of war and the forgotten realms may include one or two "too obviously good" choices, but apart from that, they're at least distinctive. I'd much rather have that than a "boring and undermines fluff" background.
And almost all of them are going to be pretty reasonable. Sure, maybe some of them grant +1 to init or +1 to two skills and both of em become class skills. That's... not exactly a balance problem, IMNSHO.
Even the so-called "problematic" backgrounds aren't really. If somebody likes making nifty super-powerful combos, these backgrounds are unlikely to stop them, and unlikely to raise the power to the next level. Windrise Ports may seem like ZOMG game changer, but that perception is skewed by the fact that any power gamer can see that it enables new combinations, which is just asking for looking for the best stuff - so naturally, you'll see some powerful combo's on boards. But even without it, there'll be a bunch of other combos to execute: I very seriously doubt that banning windrise ports (for instance) is going to actually improve any groups game.
So, I feel the various different ability score as HP score backgrounds are a little too impactful at low level, but other than that, I really don't see an issue - and I'm strongly opposed to the PHB2-outlined boringness and inappropriate bonuses that most backgrounds grant (which people will still skim for the skills they want anyhow).
I totally buy the argument that some of these backgrounds are possible to use cheesily, so perhaps you'll want to ban or modify a few.
However, the PHB2 backgrounds are singularly worse: they're terribly boring. Look, if you just want people to get an extra class skill or two, just say so. Prepackaging them like that just makes for bland characters; what happens is that people actually look through these published backgrounds and take those that exist rather than whatever they've come up with. The character builder exacerbates that flaw.
Many of the published backgrounds make no sense whatsoever, particularly those that follow the PHB2 guidelines. Regionally associated skill just don't work - they kind of suggest that every adventurer from that region must somehow be good at these skills - as if the region is full of detectives, cutthroats, athletes, acrobats, or whatever. In any case, I'd much rather the players read various backgrounds purely for fluff inspiration (incidentally, that was 3.5's PHB2 approach) and let them come up with a an appropriate bonus - or even just choose anything - after all, the bonuses are mechanically limited so you don't need to find any preexisting background.
I find the "associated skill" mechanic distracts from the actual background.
The backgrounds of the scales of war and the forgotten realms may include one or two "too obviously good" choices, but apart from that, they're at least distinctive. I'd much rather have that than a "boring and undermines fluff" background.
And almost all of them are going to be pretty reasonable. Sure, maybe some of them grant +1 to init or +1 to two skills and both of em become class skills. That's... not exactly a balance problem, IMNSHO.
Even the so-called "problematic" backgrounds aren't really. If somebody likes making nifty super-powerful combos, these backgrounds are unlikely to stop them, and unlikely to raise the power to the next level. Windrise Ports may seem like ZOMG game changer, but that perception is skewed by the fact that any power gamer can see that it enables new combinations, which is just asking for looking for the best stuff - so naturally, you'll see some powerful combo's on boards. But even without it, there'll be a bunch of other combos to execute: I very seriously doubt that banning windrise ports (for instance) is going to actually improve any groups game.
So, I feel the various different ability score as HP score backgrounds are a little too impactful at low level, but other than that, I really don't see an issue - and I'm strongly opposed to the PHB2-outlined boringness and inappropriate bonuses that most backgrounds grant (which people will still skim for the skills they want anyhow).
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I like them a lot for non-Con melee classes (Assault Swordmages, Avengers, Thaneborn Barbarians, Tempest Fighters, etc.). I don't use them for back line guys, I'll choose something "better" for them. They don't give you extra surges and don't really scale, so I see no real issue with them.
The PHB2 backgrounds are definitely more balanced. I don't think these ones are game-breaking, but I can definitely see how aggravating it is when every player suddenly chooses it. I'd recommend making some in-game impact of the backgrounds. Auspicious Birth characters are always having people coming to them expecting them to freely solve their problems - if they don't, their Auspicious Birth benefits fade. The Bad Sign characters are plagued by ill-luck, or are distrusted, or so forth. Things like that might make characters think twice about choosing the backgrounds based on raw mechanics alone.
Flipguarder
First Post
I love that idea, players who choose the "bad sign" background always just have rotten luck. Players that choose "auspicious birth" always have people begging them for help. All backgrounds can have negative and positive influences on options and RP possibilities, but since they are the best mechanical backgrounds, they have the worst RP outcomes.
But again, they're npot really that "good". They don't boost surges at all, so the HP comparison should be made with total available HP. and "extra" 8 HP at level 1 for an avenger with a 10 Con, for example, goes from 24 to 32 HP. That looks pretty nifty, except you only have 7 surges boosted from 6 to 8 HP per surge. However, if you put a Con at 14 sans background, for example, that gives you 28 HP and two more surges of 7. The former case gives you a potential 88 HP (8 * 7 + 32) to tap in a day, the latter gives you 91 HP (7 * 9 +28) in a day to tap.
And that does not even account for leader added dice on spending surges if/when it comes to that.
If someone wants to boost Con to 14 AND take the background, the difference is slight really in that they'll be short points elsewhere as a non-Con class.
So no, they aren't a big deal to me.
And that does not even account for leader added dice on spending surges if/when it comes to that.
If someone wants to boost Con to 14 AND take the background, the difference is slight really in that they'll be short points elsewhere as a non-Con class.
So no, they aren't a big deal to me.
In general, I think you should either use "PHB2-compliant only" backgrounds, or you should allow backgrounds from one of the more powerful sources and expect people to take them.
But I wouldn't expect people to take PHB2 background benefits when FR or Eberron backgrounds are available to them; the worldbook benefits are quite deliberately more powerful than the PHB2 backgrounds are; players might very well take other backgrounds on top of the overpowered one (but not the benefit), but "+2 to a skill -or- gain it as a class skill" doesn't really mix well with "+1 to two skills and gain them as class skills" or "use Int/Wis/whatever you want for HPs instead of con" or "+2 to a skill and you can reroll rolls on that skill that you don't like" or "you can take multiclass feats from two different classes" -- whereas those benefits are roughly balanced against one another.
But I wouldn't expect people to take PHB2 background benefits when FR or Eberron backgrounds are available to them; the worldbook benefits are quite deliberately more powerful than the PHB2 backgrounds are; players might very well take other backgrounds on top of the overpowered one (but not the benefit), but "+2 to a skill -or- gain it as a class skill" doesn't really mix well with "+1 to two skills and gain them as class skills" or "use Int/Wis/whatever you want for HPs instead of con" or "+2 to a skill and you can reroll rolls on that skill that you don't like" or "you can take multiclass feats from two different classes" -- whereas those benefits are roughly balanced against one another.
I believe the Eberron backgrounds follow the PHB2 backgrounds. It is only FR and one or two early Dragon articles that have the more powerful abilities. And yeah, once those are in play, it is hard to turn them down without a really good reason.
Well, most players in my 4e game picked several backgrounds. You only get a mechanical bonus from one of them, but there's no limit to the number of backgrounds you can pick. I.e. of course you can come from a region without being good at the 'typical' skills, just pick a second background for your bonus.
They're first and foremost a tool for inspiration and the Eberron ones work especially well for that. If a player doesn't want to pick any, that's also fine:
They're free to come up with ideas of their own and get whatever skill bonus/class skill/ language they want if it makes some sense.
Imho, the example backgrounds work marvelously: For two of my players it's been the first time they came up with a written personal history for their characters!
