BADC: Bothered About Disposable Charisma, Where Can I Find More Info?

[hong]

Re: Re: Re: Re

Besides, instead of negotiating, it's better to kill the bad guys and take their phat loot...

Epic Cha-based feats could also give you things like background music, backing vocals, and the ability to stun enemies by making incredibly profound (or incredibly stupid) statements.

I see a great need.


Hong "watching too much Slayers lately" Ooi

 

[Humanophile]

Hong, if you're up to it, I'd love to see a "Now let me tell you all about my secret plan, Mr. Bond, before throwing you into a poorly defended and easily defeated deathtrap" feat. That, more than anything else, is what Charisma in a dungeonlike setting setting should be.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re

Epic Cha-based feats could also give you things like background music, backing vocals, and the ability to stun enemies by making incredibly profound (or incredibly stupid) statements.

I see a great need.

I fear bards in your games.

 

[hong]

Hong, if you're up to it, I'd love to see a "Now let me tell you all about my secret plan, Mr. Bond, before throwing you into a poorly defended and easily defeated deathtrap" feat. That, more than anything else, is what Charisma in a dungeonlike setting setting should be.

The serious version....


DISCERN WEAKNESS

You have an instinctive sense for your enemies' weak spots.

Prereqs: Cha 15+, Gather Information skill, Bluff skill

Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on Gather Information skill checks. Furthermore, when you meet a foe with more HD or levels than you, you can declare a Charisma check opposed by a Wisdom check. This opposed check is a free action. If you beat your foe's result, you immediately learn the following:
- total hit points, and hit points remaining
- any DR, hardness and energy resistances
- highest spellcasting level
- number of cohorts and followers in the immediate vicinity (DM's discretion)

The latter use of this feat is usable once per encounter. It can only be used once per day on any individual foe, whether the opposed check is successful or not.



The silly version....

DISCERN WEAKNESS

Your brilliant smile and suave demeanor disarm even your deadliest foes.

Prereqs: As above

Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on Gather Information skill checks. Once per day, when you meet a foe with more HD/levels than you, you can declare a Charisma check opposed by a Wisdom check. If you beat your foe's result, you may immediately implant a suggestion in their mind, as the spell cast by a sorcerer of your character level. Typical suggestions include "tell me all about your secret plans", "let us go", or "it's hopeless, surrender to the authorities". The save DC against the suggestion is equal to 10 + 1/2 your level + your Cha mod. This use of the feat requires a standard action, and provokes attacks of opportunity.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Re: Re

Sure they can roleplay being a good talker, but if they have taken a poor Charisma I will not give them any kind of bonus no matter how good they lie. I just translate the conversation as if the person had an 8 Charisma.

I think you are confusing Charisma with skill use here (at least I *hope* you are - otherwise the rogue with Cha 8 but 12 ranks in Bluff or Diplomacy is going to mighty miffed!)

The real issue isn't to do with skills at all. All of the attributes affect skills to greater or lesser extent.

The issue is non-skill based die rolls which are fundamental to the game - whether it is attack rolls, damage rolls, AC, Saving throws, initiative checks. Modifiers which are useful to EVERY class, not just specialist classes (since each attribute has classes that benefit from specialising in it to some extent or another).

Only Cha doesn't have a generic, non-skill-related effect that I can think of - although Int doesn't affect any die rolls, it does affect skill points for everyone.

 

[Berandor]

I have to agree with Henry. Even though it has been said before, this is one of my pet peeves.
Someone with a low Cha is not necessarily ugly as hell. When you suffer from Charisma drain, you do not grow bumps and boils in your face.
Many people "simulate" Charisma (and to a lesser extent, Int and Wis) with role-playing. If the player lies good, no need for a check.
But if the character is a good liar, he'll probably have some ranks in bluff, won't he? And if the fighter is a born leader, someone who holds speeches before the big fight, he better have a good Cha score, or he'll be likely to stutter or be afraid of speaking in public (unless he's got ranks in diplomacy, that is).
Embodying your stats, that is good role-playing. Not playing yourself without regards to the stats.

The second part of henry's argument is even more important. I know a lot of un-athletic people who play barbarians, fighters, rogues, ... I know stupid people who play wizards or clerics. So why shouldn't timid people be able to play charismatic leaders or sly mountebanks? Just because they're not outgoing enough to roleplay correctly?
Next time the fighter lifts the portcullis, I'll have him lift a real one, too. No checks required.

Berandor

 

[Fenes 2]

I think that a great many of the problems with "roleplaying" making Charisma unneccessary result from the tendency to use your own mental stats for a great many of situations in-game. If I had a dollar for every time I read about how this or that DM "teaches" his players to "play it smart", "use good plans" or "have a good graps on basic tactics" I would be a rich man.

In my D&D campaign I have, fortunately, players who will roleplay their characters, and act according to what they believe their PCs think, not what they themselves think. They will have their PCs walk into a trap despite knowing better, have the wrong suspect strip-searched despite guessing correctly the real culprit ooc, and don't use the most effective, but the most fitting gear and tactics for their PCs.

Concerning Charisma checks, I always make them roll skill or ability checks during or after roleplaying a scene. The roll, modified by circumstances and other modifiers, decides the outcome, though an original idea may net a bonus just like a blunder may net a penalty.

In addition to that, Charisma plays a major role in how NPCs react to a PC, and what first impression the PC makes. People with low charisma will get a cooler reception in general, but again modifiers like fame, social standing and realtions will often outweigh that.