[BADD] A clinic for DMing Dragons- long

[Bozo]

There can be only 1

Without drawing things out to the nth degree -

I have been involved in a very long running/lots of role playing campaing that involves 1 Red Dragon who is interwoven very complexly into the plot. Meeting the dragon sends the entire party running (when he is in dragon form) except for the unlucky bastard who he wants to talk too or the Paladin Type character whose background is intertwined with the dragons.
A long story short - the dragon made a pact with the remaining elves of MythDranor to protect an infant princess, in return the elves would protect him from the cult of the dragon (he wasn't keen on the whole undead thing) with a special mythal which would fail if he ever broke his promise. Well the princess grew up to become and E'lundar (special order of mystra paladins..(custom class)...who devote their life to the service of Mystra and take various vows-I can post if anyone is interested) because the dragon left her on a temple stoop. You can imagine this has caused problems for the elves who were scattered after the drow invasion of Mythdranor and are now trying to regroup and track down the missing heir. The dragon's joke of course is that there will be no more heirs thanks to the vow of chastity that all E'lundar take.

The point being- The dragon is very special, the party could't even imagine trying to fight it as they have a hard time just talking to it (except the E'lundar who has sworn to kill it). I think the fear effect alone is DC30..it has blindsight, it flies, it polymorphs, it teleports, it summons beasts and beings to do its bidding or just charms them into doing its bidding. The party only lives through the encounters because the dragon is afraid of the cult and the elvin curse...A true bad guy

Although my quick summary butchers the campaign I think the point comes across. To PC's dragons should be GODS especially 3rd edition dragons....

 

[Carnifex]

I disagree that dragons should be gods - gods are gods, dragons are dragons, mortals, and hence weaker and more fallible than gods.

After all, gods are hardly infallible anyway.

 

[Gargoyle]

Re: There can be only 1

....

Although my quick summary butchers the campaign I think the point comes across. To PC's dragons should be GODS especially 3rd edition dragons....

At the risk of repeating myself, I also have to disagree that dragons should always be undefeatable, and don't understand why this is especially so in 3E.

However, if that's the way you want it for your campaign, and you and the players find it fun, more power to you. It's just that this post is about dragons as fallible creatures, not indestructible forces. It doesn't take much expertise to play something that's unbeatable.

 

[jasper]

dragon takes gold to weaponsmith and orders lots of master work short,long, great etc swords.

Dragon hires evil wizard to enchant weapons with special purpose Slay Dragon Slayers. Substitute Slay wizards etc special purpose.

Other sword curse at -2 etc against dragons but okay against other things.
Add telepathy to some.
Now dragons have spies in the party which has communicated all their plans to the dragon.
Result.
Lunch.

Other tactics
Split that horde and buy iras. multiple lairs as you get older. If elmer fudd can own a mansion and an yatcht so can you.
Become the protector. (evil way gee mr mayor that horde of orcs is raiding your country side I eat them for $20 a head.) of course orcs are in your command. (good way orcs are just lunch and you pick up a good tip).

If you near town spies spies and spy like spells.

Split the party, snatch and grab your lunch, smack against a rock 10 miles away. enjoy and come back in a two or more days.

 

[Bozo]

clarify

The players are 5th and 6th level......So to them A dragon might as well be a god

 

[Carnifex]

Even MORE tactics to use

1) Insurance Policy. If the dragon is aware that the party is on their way to off the beast, appropriation of some hostages may be the way to go. Preferably people important to the PC's (loved ones etc), but failing that, someone important to someone whom the PC's have to answer to (ie king's daughter, etc.). If you're sure that your PC's are good roleplayers and they have good alignments, then just round up some peasants. When the party arrives, threaten to kill the hostage/s there and then if they a) don't go away now, b) don't surrender now or c) don't go away but first pay tribute with gold or magic items to the dragon.

2) Breeding Program. Some dragons wont take well to this as they think that dragons are supreme and their blodline shouldn't be diluted, and would balk at the idea of mating with non-dragons. For those with less moral hang-ups, start them breeding with various different creatures; half-dragon minions are much tougher than just regular minions. Half-dragon humans (preferably spellcasters), ogres, anythings really. Add one or two younger dragons as well, and you have quite the draconic horde.

3) Death by Enviroment. So, the dragon's a red and immune to fire? Hot, volanic cavern riddled with lava flows. Blue? Middle of the desert, hot and hard to survive in without loads of water. Black? Corrosive swamp - he uses his breath weapon regularly to hose the water down, making it incredibly dangerous to navigate through.

4) Acid Roof. A black dragon breathes a line of acid - but lets say he hoses down the ceiling of a cave with it before the fight, so that throughout the battle small amounts of acid are dripping down onto the party below, like corrosive rain?

Hope that helps...

 

[Gargoyle]

dragon takes gold to weaponsmith and orders lots of master work short,long, great etc swords.

Dragon hires evil wizard to enchant weapons with special purpose Slay Dragon Slayers.

This seems like something an evil dragon would do though I doubt he'd pay with his precious gold. More likely, he'd simply extort or enslave the weaponsmith through minions. He'd probably also find another way to get the wizard to enchant the swords, rather than paying. Paying with service would be more his style.

Since there is no "Defeat/slay dragon slayer" entry in the DMG, or anything like it, you'd have to define what that means. Probably it should mean anyone who has slain or helped slay a dragon in combat. These weapons would be expensive, both in gold and XP, especially if given a good special purpose power. If the cost is more than the wealth of the wizard and/or dragon, then I'd increase the CR of the dragon....

 

[Gargoyle]

Re: clarify

The players are 5th and 6th level......So to them A dragon might as well be a god

Ah...understood. The main villain IMC is a vampiric dragon wizard/cleric (long story) turned demigod (all because of mistakes the players have made...heh heh). The PCs are 5th to 7th level and have no chance of beating him in all out combat, and resort to merely foiling his plans.

I guess my point is that in most campaigns, dragons of CR 5 or 6 exist, and certainly wouldn't be god-like to your PCs. A campaign where all the dragons are CR 20 (or whatever) is fine, just different from the common scenario.

 

[Bob Aberton]

Have the dragon drop the roof in: how about this scenario: Dragon is in a cavern w/a high ceiling. Dragon flies up as close to the ceiling as he/she dares. Dragon then proceeds to drop the roof in on the party, maybe after snatching one or two for good measure. NOTE: Dragon drops in all the roof except the bit he's under. Time to break the rules on being buried alive...heheh....And then, if you wish it, it could get even better!! Dragon then proceeds to heat up the pile of rocks w/party underneath w/breath weapon. Then maybe seals off the cavern for good measure. Or, he could dig the party out one by one and then CDG them, because they're still pinned under the rubble.

 

[Altalazar]

You really need a disclaimer on all of these dragon threads. It only applies to much older, rarer dragons.

The only dragons my group has fought are CR8, CR5, and CR1 respectively.

Half the party had higher int and wisdom than these dragons (blue, black, and white) had.

Young dragons are NOT that powerful. Some of them don't even merit wasting any good spells on, unless you don't want them to run away.

Young dragons have lower ints, lower wisdoms than adventurer humans, they don't have spells, they have limited resources, and they don't have much life experience either. Why should they pose a god-like threat?

I see dragons like I see other NPCs - most of them are not that powerful. Just like most wizards are below 5th level, most dragons are well below god-like status. An old and wily one should be as rare as 20th+ level NPC.

The one time my group ran into what appeared to be an older dragon, the encounter was over before it began. They ran the hell away.