[BADD] My players threw down the gauntlet!!

[GuardianLurker]

Oh, man. The party doesn't have any innate flying, do they?

You have *got* to use that against them.

Some fragmentary tactics :
if you set this in a mountain pass, the dragon can easily construct an avalanche ready-zone. One dragon-roar, one avalanche, one crushed party (20d6+ crushing damage, plus suffocation).

Dragon sculpts Ice version of itself at a convient point in front of the party. Sculpture has Wand of Cone of Cold, rigged as a trap, and auditory illusion involving lots of roaring. Dragon waits to see which PC is the biggest threat (spellcaster, archer, etc), then swoops in with a Fly-by Snatch putting the hapless PC in its mouth. Bite. Breathe. Bite. Drop (preferrably from at least 200 feet up).

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Or, worse yet, the Rider uses spirited charge on one foe while the dragon snatches another. They could be separated by as much as forty five feet since the giant has 30 foot reach with his heavy lance and the dragon has at least 15 foot reach with his bite.

Oh, man. The party doesn't have any innate flying, do they?

You have *got* to use that against them.

Some fragmentary tactics :
if you set this in a mountain pass, the dragon can easily construct an avalanche ready-zone. One dragon-roar, one avalanche, one crushed party (20d6+ crushing damage, plus suffocation).

Dragon sculpts Ice version of itself at a convient point in front of the party. Sculpture has Wand of Cone of Cold, rigged as a trap, and auditory illusion involving lots of roaring. Dragon waits to see which PC is the biggest threat (spellcaster, archer, etc), then swoops in with a Fly-by Snatch putting the hapless PC in its mouth. Bite. Breathe. Bite. Drop (preferrably from at least 200 feet up).

 

[Kyramus]

transmute rock to mud level 5
just because they are climbing up to meet them, doesn't mean the dragon can't save the avalanche til later and set off a different one.
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Telekinesis level 5
lift a 275lb boulder and use it as a bowling ball, over and over nad over and over.

make bets with the rider as to who can bowl over more characters. rider uses rock tossing.

best part of this tactic, still long range.
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The enemy will fight on their own turf and terms.
People run in, start fighting.
Rider hits the side of the wall that depresses something causing the roof to collapse, separating the party. make mince meat of the separated people then go cat and mouse on the other.
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If you have ever watched "they nest" a movie. you'll remember something about insects. If they swarm, there is no way to kill them all unless they hurt themselves in the process.

make a mutation of an existing vermin that can live in cold climates, and let them run wild on the players because THEY ARE warm blooded and generate heat. The frost giant and white dragon would most likely not generate as much heat as the players.

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evard's black tentacles level 4, ALWAYS a good annoying tactic.
displacement level 3. Sure hit me. 50% miss chance.
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shatter level 2
target the fighter/s weapon. will save to not break. I would suggest using something to buff up the dragon's cha to increase the shatter dc. like eagle's splendor from a wand or something.
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Just because the frost giant has equipment, wouldn't it also be logical that this white dragon who's lived a long live have equipement also.
IE wand of eagle's splendor, scrolls, magically crafted rings or amulets or headbands.
remove the improved init and add in a craft feat.
Substitute a level 2 spell to Knauper's skittish nerves (+5 init).

 

[Dagger75]

I will generate a horde for the dragon and see what I get.

A few points:

1. I had to take sorceror levels for the dragon, not many dragons can cast clerical spells with out taking a class.

2. The Cleave, Great Cleave Sunder where all part of being a Frost Giant.

3. The party can all fly.

4. I have not made the Evil half-dragon cleric yet

 

[Wicht]

Tactics:

1. When the party is flying, ambush them invisibly (both rider and dragon) - an invisible lance charge made by a giant on a dragon while flying has got to hurt, especially when the dragon is breathing on them at the same time. Don't tell the party what happens either except descriptivelly. Use the flyby attack, thus trying to put the dragon out of range of dispels and invisibility purge by the time the party can cast them. Make sure to have the party make saves versus the massive damage they will be taking. Even though one of the PCs will be able to see the attack the others will be blind. The first attack should come from behind the PCs

Repeat, perhaps combining breath attacks and lance charges. When the party figures it out and manages to retaliate the giant and dragon retreat.

2. The dragons lair should be filled with ice (1/4 movement or Ref save DC 15 to fall at 1/2 movement, DC 25 or fall at full movement - AC penalties apply). Some of the ice should be at an angle causing the party to slide into pits etc. The dragon of course has ice walk. A giant maze of ice, pits and mirror like surfaces would make for a neat lair, with the dragon using the mirrors to cause the casters to miscast their spells before ambushing them from a different direction.

3. Even if the dragon is a servant, it will still have its own treasure. Otherwise it would rebel against its master. Make sure to equip it with some magical items. Something unexpected like a wand of fireballs.

The dragon uses the fireballs to hit the party in a certain room. This both hits the party and collapses the ceiling of the room (ouch).

4. A pool of icy water in its lair through which the dragon can swim to another chamber to quickly escape. PCs in armor will have a hard time following and PCs that do follow find the dragon has used its breath to ice up the surface of the water on the other side.

 

[Baron Von StarBlade]

It sounds like the party really screwed up by picking white dragons. I don't remember where I first heard this story, but if you really wanna throw the group for a loop then put them up against a Great Wyrm WIGHT Dragon with a Black Guard Rider. Nothing like some Level draining goodness. Then chalk it up to a misunderstanding on the DM's part
I would think you could kill the party off really quick by focusing all attacks on the Cleric (well unless the Cleric decided to cast Harm on the dragon. . . wouldn't that be fun to heal up the dragon)

 

[arwink]

Make them fight the dragon over a frozen lake/river. The dragon can hold its breath and swim in the water beneath for a long time, then burst through the ice when they least expect it. Surprise, as well as the sudden creation of an iceflow and a tennuous combat position. Trying to maintain their balance on floating ice while fighting against a dragon trying to snatch them and drag them into the freezing water ought to be at least a little difficult.

Of course, that doesn't help the rider any. Hmm. Back to the drawing board then....

 

[Ysgarran]

2. The Cleave, Great Cleave Sunder where all part of being a Frost Giant.

I don't think that you have to take those two feats for the frost Giant. I don't have the book in front of me but look at the Frost Giant NPC in the FR book to confirm this, I'm pretty sure that she does not either of those two feats. Another example would be Orcs, Orcs are listed with the 'Alertness' feat but that doesn't mean every Orc has to take that feat...

Later,
Ysgarran.

p.s.
I've always thought that 'Large and In Charge' combined with 'Combat Reflexes' always made a nice combination for big creatures.

 

[Dagger75]

The problem with Frost giants is they are not the Dex type of fighters. With a 9 Dex out of the MM, and using the DMG as a guide that gives them -2 to dex. Now I use the point buy system when I make my monsters and buying a 14 Dex is a little steep for a dude that lives off his str.

Also-- IF the party does manage to destroy this encounter they will end up having some nice magic itmes. Now I don't mind giving them some things, but not a Staff of Life or things like that. Also the Lair is nowhere near where they are at, so the lair tactics while cool (hehe) will not apply here. I have filed them away though.

 

[Wicht]

2. The Cleave, Great Cleave Sunder where all part of being a Frost Giant.

A DM should feel free to swap out feats at a whim.