D&D 5E Balancing the Rune Knight

[Hurin70]

Why not run RAW and if you think its overpowerd in some way in your campaign that is ruining someone's fun then change the rules on the fly. And let your player know that could happen.

Changing rules on the fly is not a good option for me because I find that that's when players start to get annoyed. They use a cool power well, and the DM nerfs it -- that in my experience has been a recipe for party acrimony.

There is another reason too. If we just play the RAW, and the RK trivializes a big encounter, then it's too late; the damage has already been done. Changing on the fly only fixes things for the future; it doesn't erase the fact that what should have been a challenging encounter has been trivialized.

These two reasons make me want to get the class right from the beginning, rather than react to an OP character on the fly.

Maybe you can explain in what way the Mystic "ruined" your other campaign?

Maybe I was being a bit hyperbolic. The Mystic's bevy of powers for virtually every situation, combined with the ability to switch some of its abilities on the fly, trivialized many encounters and undermined the balance between the classes. The Mystic could just do virtually everything: heal (even the Revenant in the party!), nuke, control, etc. It was just too much.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Maybe don't compare with other fighters: how does the Rune Knight stack up against other more mystical melee classes like a Hexblade warlock?
Their (up to level 5) spells are based on 2/short rest, so that might give a reasonably close comparison with the runes.

 

[Hurin70]

They've got all the goodies of a fighter (weapon and armor proficiencies, hit points, action surge). If they can fight as good as a fighter and cast as good as a Warlock, doesn't that suggest they are overpowered?

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

They've got all the goodies of a fighter (weapoon and armor proficiencies, hit points, action surge). If they can fight as good as a fighter and cast as good as a Warlock, doesn't that suggest they are overpowered?

With the right invocations, a Hexblade Pact of the Blade warlock can get pretty close to replicating the abilities of a base fighter. (Outside of Action Surge.)
Hence why I'm thinking that comparing the runes to the spells warlocks get on a short rest might be easier than trying to compare them to other fighter subclass abilities.

 

[WarrenM]

I think Giant Might should also be a rune. Just started playing a Rune Knight, will let you know what I think.

 

[Hurin70]

I think Giant Might should also be a rune. Just started playing a Rune Knight, will let you know what I think.

I think that is the best solution. Not only does it tone down something verging on OP, it also unifies the class thematically.

 

[WarrenM]

Hill isn't a big deal unless you have a Barbarian in the party (they might feel upset about it).

The real power is Storm and Defensive Runes. There are very few abilities that give enemies disadvantage on saves, much less every round for a minute. So you can reduce Storm to 1/Long Rest (2 at 15th Level).

I'm trying storm, but my party is not one able to abuse the disadvantage on saves. I think it would be fair to remove dissadvantage from saving throws as an option on use. I'd still be very happy with the result. The action and reaction use seems a good trade for the abilities.

 

[WarrenM]

For all the people suggesting the Rune Knight be dialed down... let me point you at the Arcane Archer. A Fighter subclass with severe use limitations on its special abilities that's widely considered somewhere between "too restricted to be much fun" and "so weak it's complete garbage". The Arcane Archer is what you get when you're too stingy with a Fighter subclass abilities.

So what I'm saying is, I played a Rune Knight in one adventure, and it was in no way overpowered. Granted I wasn't trying to minmax my build, but still, it's no Loremaster. I highly recommend people give the Rune Knight a fair try as printed before they nerf the hell out of it, and that you consider Battlemaster your benchmark rather than the Arcane Archer.

What runes did you try?

 

[WarrenM]

So, here is my balancing attempt.

Haug, paragraph 2:

In addition, you can invoke the rune as a bonus action, gaining resistance to all damage until the end of your next turn. Once you invoke the rune, you can’t do so again until you finish a short or long rest.

Uvar, paragraph 2:

In addition, you can invoke the rune as a bonus action to enter a prophetic state for 1 minute or until you’re incapacitated. Until the state ends, when you or another creature you can see within 60 feet of you makes an attack roll, a saving throw, or an ability check, you can use your reaction to cause the roll to have advantage or disadvantage. You can do this once for each of attack rolls, saving throws and ability checks until the prophetic state ends. Once you invoke the rune, you can’t do so again until you finish a short or long rest.

That weakens the two strongest runes, but not in a crippling way. Haug works on any damage, but only for 1 round; Uvar lets you impose advantage or disadvantage on 3 different rolls in a minute, but not repeatedly.

I might make Ild stronger:

In addition, as a bonus action you can surround a weapon with a fiery aura. Once per turn when you hit a creature with a weapon attack, the target must succeed on a Strength saving throw or the fiery aura transforms into shackles and restraines the creature for 1 minute. While restrained by the shackles, the target takes 2d6 fire damage at the start of each of its turns. The target can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, banishing the shackles on a success. The fiery aura emits dim light in a 10' radius, and lasts until a creature fails a saving throw against it, or 1 minute passes. Once you invoke the rune, you can’t do so again until you finish a short or long rest.

That might be a bit strong; with this rewording, you can force 1 save/round until someone fails it.

The original version was a bit "ok, make a saving throw... nothing happened. See you next short rest!" to much for me.

Your Uvar rework adds a little too much tracking. I really think the rune is usable if we just skip the ability to give disadvantage on saves. Its certainly more effective than the sorcerers shadow hound ability. I'll try as is and see if it gets out of hand.

 

[WarrenM]

Rule of Cool would state yes.

Agreed, this seems cool and with a single use, not over powered. I've taken this rune and will give feedback after some experience. I feel best case scenario the diversion of one major attack is great. Worst case is there is one enemy or even just multiple low damage units and the rune fails to deliver. Its possible one may wish for a second use, but my first impression is that its fair.