D&D General Baldur's Gate 3 Hates Religion (Spoilers)

[Zardnaar]

Which is actually a pretty cool myth. Once we remove the alignment we can appreciate the gods as weird and capricious mythological creatures the are. I have no issue with gods having questionable morals, I only have an issue with the writers insisting that they are objectively good whilst behaving so.

Goodssomewhat subjective though. And the gods act like Greek and Roman ones so they have their flaws.

 

[Rystefn]

Which is actually a pretty cool myth. Once we remove the alignment we can appreciate the gods as weird and capricious mythological creatures the are. I have no issue with gods having questionable morals, I only have an issue with the writers insisting that they are objectively good whilst behaving so.

Even without an alignment entry, you can still see it represented as Selune is good and right for doing all of the above by the original author and every other author along the way since, though. Even with all of it happening before Shar turned to evil (because she literally turned to evil as a direct result of this). It is in no way a presentation of gods having questionable morals. It's 100% intended for us to see it as good and righteous. Because light = good and dark = evil, and that's the end of it.

But then, Greenwood has a history of presenting good and evil as teams rather than moral positions, and having "Team Good" do things that are blatantly evil left and right, and treating it as perfectly fine because of what team they're on. I mean, he even has his self-insert straight up tell his own daughter "might makes right, so do as I say or I'll kill you." (I wish I was paraphrasing that harder than I am.)

 

[Rystefn]

As far as "Half elves age normally 'til they're adults" then that kinda poops all over any reason for them to not just live perfectly normally in Human communities, utterly destroying the "Trapped between two worlds" identity they've got. Because they're just as physically and emotionally mature as their human counterparts there's no conflict, there, aside from having pointier ears than your average kid in the village.

It sure does, but that's how it works, and has for some time now.

 

[Zardnaar]

Not sure why you went off on a tangent about the specific age of the little kids being abandoned in the woods, but yeah, probably around 10. Half elves don't start aging differently from humans until after puberty, and haven't for several editions at this point. Regardless, abandoning the kids in the woods and making them find their own way home is explicitly a rite of passage here. The danger is the point. Yes, it was more dangerous than they believed, but that doesn't make it "safe AF." It's not a "casual evening stroll." It just isn't. It's literally being abandoned in a strange forest without knowing the way home. Because the rite of passage in question is to find their own way home. And there are dangerous predators living in the forest in question. Again, that's part of the point. So once again: Yes, the Sharrans were attacking and kidnapping kids. But that would not even have been possible if the Selunites weren't abandoning them in the woods at the night. That is exactly what's happening, and it's a dangerous, toxic practice.

The adults kept an eye on them. Sharpens are guilty of assault, kidnap and murder here.

Some youth here go into the forests for 24 hours. Bit older but it's a thing.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It's weird that the writers chose to tell a story where there are no actually decent relations between people and their religious figures.

Why is it weird?

 

[Incenjucar]

It really isn't weird, it's just a bit lacking in flexibility for someone wanting a more hopeful take.

 

[Rystefn]

The adults kept an eye on them. Sharpens are guilty of assault, kidnap and murder here.

Some youth here go into the forests for 24 hours. Bit older but it's a thing.

Literally no one is saying the Sharrans aren't guilty of assault, kidnapping, and murder. I know it's hard to understand, but it's possible to look at something and say "This group is bad, but this other group, which is less bad in this particular instance, are also pretty terrible."

And no, the adults clearly aren't keeping an eye on them. That's explicitly not happening. That's why daddy dearest has to frantically charge out into the woods when he hears that the Sharrans are out there. Because no one was watching them. That is, once again, the actual point of the rite in the first place.

 

[Steampunkette]

Literally no one is saying the Sharrans aren't guilty of assault, kidnapping, and murder. I know it's hard to understand, but it's possible to look at something and say "This group is bad, but this other group, which is less bad in this particular instance, are also pretty terrible."

And no, the adults clearly aren't keeping an eye on them. That's explicitly not happening. That's why daddy dearest has to frantically charge out into the woods when he hears that the Sharrans are out there. Because no one was watching them. That is, once again, the actual point of the rite in the first place.

Without getting too deep into it:

Coming of Age Rituals are generally speaking not meant to be -dangerous-.

Scary, often. Painful sometimes. But no one is expected to occasionally die during their Bar Mitzvah or their Quinceañera. It's typically a test to show you have learned enough about the subject of being an adult that you qualify to be considered an adult by the community.

For some people this means getting your hands repeatedly bitten by ants for a set amount of time. For others it's studying important scrolls. Here and there it's getting a tattoo or climbing a specific mountain or having a footrace against an animal. And sometimes it's finding your way home in the dark.

For at least one group it's "Toss off all the rules of our society and go be wild and crazy, then decide if you want to be under our rules. If you do, come back. If you don't, go with love."

So. Y'know. YMMV based on culture.

But calling "Walk home in the dark, child we think is old enough to be treated as an adult within our society" child abuse is just bonkers to me.

Why is it weird?

It really isn't weird, it's just a bit lacking in flexibility for someone wanting a more hopeful take.

I mean... kinda?

Mostly it's weird 'cause you're telling the same story (Abusive authority figure) six times in six ways and the most lenient and supportive abusive authority figure in the story is a Half Devil who bargained for Wyll's soul but not only keeps up her end of the deal the entire way through outright gives him tangible rewards (That rapier, tho) and -helps- at the end, directly. Yeah, she's rude along the way, but so was Cordelia Chase and she had the best arc in Buffy -and- Angel.

Like... Don't get me wrong. It's messed up she's going to keep him in Hell forever as a devil in the Blood War which is going to suck. But compare that to Vlaakith demanding perfect obedience and then killing you anyway. Or Mystra demanding you kill yourself and doom the entire Sword Coast. Or Shar torturing you just because she enjoys torturing you and spiting her sister.

Like... It's -weird- that none of the religious origin characters have a decent relationship with their deity and a separate problem that they're dealing with, instead. None of them have their god actually in their corner trying to support them.

I'm not even looking for a more hopeful take. If Shadowheart spent the entire game as a Sharran with no "Redemption" storyline option and Shar was actually in her corner and helping her to fight against the Absolute rather than torturing her -just- to torture her... That'd still work for me in the context of the weirdness, here.

Ketheric Thorme was willing to do terrible things to get his daughter back and Myrkul was like "Bet. Here she is. You can have her." and their relationship was totally equitable... But Mystra's like "Doom the Sword Coast and kill yourself to achieve my goals and I'll forgive you for foolishly trying to give me a gift that one time or trying to get on my level for a romantic relationship that doesn't have the worlds most TITANIC toxic gap."

Like... is this supposed to be a representative sample of what relationships with your religion in the Realms are? Or is this meant to be three outliers with bad relationships in one story that aren't emblematic of the whole setting? I think it's meant to be three outliers, because otherwise no one would follow any of the gods, but it's weird to do it that way, to me.

 

[Zardnaar]

Literally no one is saying the Sharrans aren't guilty of assault, kidnapping, and murder. I know it's hard to understand, but it's possible to look at something and say "This group is bad, but this other group, which is less bad in this particular instance, are also pretty terrible."

And no, the adults clearly aren't keeping an eye on them. That's explicitly not happening. That's why daddy dearest has to frantically charge out into the woods when he hears that the Sharrans are out there. Because no one was watching them. That is, once again, the actual point of the rite in the first place.

Also means dad wasn't to far away.

 

[Incenjucar]

FR as a whole is riddled with toxic abusive relationships. Elminster is a creep. The setting is pretty gross as a whole, and presages stuff like Family Guy, Rick & Mort, or Game of Thrones in having warped protagonists.