D&D General Baldur's Gate 3 Hates Religion (Spoilers)

Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer
Supporter
She's right. Never pay extortionists.
While I am inclined to agree in reality...

In a fantasy setting where there -is- a confirmed afterlife (in truth, many afterlives) it's generally better to pick the afterlife you want and get it than to turn up one's nose out of spite for authority. Especially since your soul can and will be dragged to hell by demons or devils that raid the Fugue Plane to kidnap people for some eternal torment or use as coinage.

Plus in Faerun there's, like, hundreds of gods to pick from. Offer the occasional prayer and maybe the odd goat now and again to one that tickles your fancy.
 

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UngainlyTitan

Legend
Supporter
While I certainly agree that the gods, themselves, shouldn't do the work...

Having them direct assets is a thing. It's why the Chosen exist to some degree, after all. Mystra directs her former chosen through her current chosen, as an example. But her directions are self-destructive and, ultimately, self-defeating. Since apparently she's super short-sighted on what happens when -this- Elder Brain gets nuked and thousands of mind flayers get unleashed.

And on a related tangent: Having half the companions be Faithless in a setting where eternal prosperity is -super- easy to achieve seems silly, too.

I'd give Wyll a pass since he's sold his soul to the Hells and barring miraculous intervention that's where he'll spend eternity... but not a very -big- pass since Miracle is a 9th level spell and Divine Intervention can be asked for at 10th level. There's a 1 in 10 chance Selunite Shadowheart could save Wyll's soul before the end of the game, but they don't even try.

Similarly: Regeneration is 7th level and solves Karlach's problem. As does Raise Dead (5th level) or Resurrection (7th level).

Sure it'd be a lotta diamonds, but I'd do anything for Big K.
I think you are thinking a lot harder about this than the writers at Larian or WoTC for than matter. I do not believe that the characters are faithless for in world or narrative reasons but because they (the writers) do not want to force any particular player to identify with any particular deity. Shadowheart is the exception because she is a priest and her whole backstory centres around the machinations of gods.

BG3 is one of the best CRPGs i have ever played but while the story is solid and in my opinion better than most that is not a particularly high bar. Most CRPGs I have played have a pretty cliched main arc. What elevates BGS is the work put into character interaction. Not just with the main cast but with every rando in the game.
I agree that Big K should have had a better ending. All the elements are there, we even have an infernal mechanic, all we need are the tools and supplies.
I personally feel that there should have been an option in act II to do a deal with Orpheus instead of the Emperor. I also feel that the elements of the Emperor are weak.
 

Burnside

Space Jam Confirmed
Supporter
Selune is portrayed very positively in the game, and her Chosen intervenes directly to help with the crisis (well, unless player choices prevent that from happening).

The druids of the grove don't passively accept what's going on the the shadow-cursed lands; they're just kind of bad at stopping it, but there is plenty of evidence that they're actively trying, and not just Halsin.

It's clear that the psycho shadar-kai in Act 2 has been recalled by the Raven Queen and that she isn't pleased with him.

Lathandar and Kelemvor are portrayed consistently positively.

Actually, so is Jergal and he's very actively involved.
 

hgjertsen

Explorer
While I am inclined to agree in reality...

In a fantasy setting where there -is- a confirmed afterlife (in truth, many afterlives) it's generally better to pick the afterlife you want and get it than to turn up one's nose out of spite for authority. Especially since your soul can and will be dragged to hell by demons or devils that raid the Fugue Plane to kidnap people for some eternal torment or use as coinage.

Plus in Faerun there's, like, hundreds of gods to pick from. Offer the occasional prayer and maybe the odd goat now and again to one that tickles your fancy.
I don't think that's necessarily true depending on a character's goals and desires. Liches still exist on FR, and that's not just because they don't want to lose influence on the Material Plane, but because many characters would view eternal servitude to a deity in one of the many outer planes to be worse than obliteration.
 

Scribe

Legend
Meanwhile, you've got Karlach. Karlach specifically -doesn't- have a god. She expects to wander the Fugue Plane 'til her soul decays and dissolves into nothingness. In a setting where eternal happiness and reward can be secured by picking a god, giving them your worship, and being a good person (depending on the god, of course)... she chooses to be utterly and permanently destroyed in the Afterlife.

Same Karlach...same.

It is mentioned in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide so I presume so

They stealth errata removed that.
 


Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer
Supporter
I think you are thinking a lot harder about this than the writers at Larian or WoTC for than matter. I do not believe that the characters are faithless for in world or narrative reasons but because they (the writers) do not want to force any particular player to identify with any particular deity. Shadowheart is the exception because she is a priest and her whole backstory centres around the machinations of gods.

BG3 is one of the best CRPGs i have ever played but while the story is solid and in my opinion better than most that is not a particularly high bar. Most CRPGs I have played have a pretty cliched main arc. What elevates BGS is the work put into character interaction. Not just with the main cast but with every rando in the game.
I agree that Big K should have had a better ending. All the elements are there, we even have an infernal mechanic, all we need are the tools and supplies.
I personally feel that there should have been an option in act II to do a deal with Orpheus instead of the Emperor. I also feel that the elements of the Emperor are weak.
Oh, yeah. 100%. This is me overthinking things after the fact. Seeing the full game that the writers didn't, even when writing it.

I'm also not saying it's a bad game or anything. The story is, earnestly, fantastic. With various layers and interconnecting bits which put most stories to shame. Finding the dude who built Moonrise Towers in Hell was kind of amazing.

I just think it's funny how there are 3 party members tied to gods and all three of those gods essentially betray or reject their followers.
Selune is portrayed very positively in the game, and her Chosen intervenes directly to help with the crisis (well, unless player choices prevent that from happening).

The druids of the grove don't passively accept what's going on the the shadow-cursed lands; they're just kind of bad at stopping it, but there is plenty of evidence that they're actively trying, and not just Halsin.

It's clear that the psycho shadar-kai in Act 2 has been recalled by the Raven Queen and that she isn't pleased with him.

Lathandar and Kelemvor are portrayed consistently positively.

Actually, so is Jergal and he's very actively involved.
Ehhhhh...

Selune's Chosen fights against her captor who -happens- to have been one of the baddies in the core story. She's not doing it -because- he's Myrkul's Chosen or because he's responsible for the Absolute. It's pretty purely revenge for binding her up in Shar's domain to be slaughtered by Sharran Justiciars and to have her immortality borrowed. And then she's essentially uninvolved in anything that follows except for another person trying to trap her and then showing up on the path to the last battle as a helper who isn't significantly stronger than Mizora.

Outside of that set of interactions Selune's whole 'battle' in the game is against Shar. Both because Shadowheart and her family are the only survivors of the Blighted Village and the Temple of Selune who were kidnapped by Sharrans, and in fighting back against the Shadow Curse which... once more. Shar's doing through her former chosen Ketheric Thorm.

Granted, she keeps the Harpers safe through the works of Isobel in keeping up the ward (unless you kill her for Bhaal), but that's still kinda self-interested rather than looking out for Faerun 'cause it's her daughter's girlfriend that is getting the power.

Jergal, though. VERY involved. In that he hangs out in the hero's camp doing absolutely nothing. Unless you need to respec. Or your dead body is in a chasm and the game glitched and didn't leave a rezzable soul on the edge of the cliff. Granted, if you're a Bhaalspawn who rejects Bhaal he -does- resurrect you which is more than most of the gods of Faerun do... But that's only in one variation of the story.

Oh. Also he throws you a party. Huzzah, Jergal!
I don't think that's necessarily true depending on a character's goals and desires. Liches still exist on FR, and that's not just because they don't want to lose influence on the Material Plane, but because many characters would view eternal servitude to a deity in one of the many outer planes to be worse than obliteration.
Yes, and I'm saying they're fools for it.

Like don't get me wrong, Szass Tam is -never- going to chill in the Seven Mounting Heavens of Celestia. And there's no evil god that won't treat him like crap in the afterlife. S'truth.

But he could've just chosen to -not- be an evil unrepentant jerk and avoided that fate!

Well. Except that he has no free will and any motivation placed upon him is created by a writer...

But in the canon, if the canon were -real-... being Faithless or Evil would just be the -worst- possible things. Which really helps define evil characters -as- being evil and terrible and uncaring and is great pathos... but for a good person? Just seems weird not to pick a god and go to heaven when you die.
 

UngainlyTitan

Legend
Supporter
...

Selune's Chosen fights against her captor who -happens- to have been one of the baddies in the core story. She's not doing it -because- he's Myrkul's Chosen or because he's responsible for the Absolute. It's pretty purely revenge for binding her up in Shar's domain to be slaughtered by Sharran Justiciars and to have her immortality borrowed. And then she's essentially uninvolved in anything that follows except for another person trying to trap her and then showing up on the path to the last battle as a helper who isn't significantly stronger than Mizora.

Outside of that set of interactions Selune's whole 'battle' in the game is against Shar. Both because Shadowheart and her family are the only survivors of the Blighted Village and the Temple of Selune who were kidnapped by Sharrans, and in fighting back against the Shadow Curse which... once more. Shar's doing through her former chosen Ketheric Thorm.

Granted, she keeps the Harpers safe through the works of Isobel in keeping up the ward (unless you kill her for Bhaal), but that's still kinda self-interested rather than looking out for Faerun 'cause it's her daughter's girlfriend that is getting the power.
....
This is about protagonism, though. If Dame Aylin were to be front and centre of the battle, she would have to be at the very least a companion and/or a playable character but she arrives a bit late for the latter.
The Mystra subplot is not very good nor well integrated in to the finale in my opinion.
 


hgjertsen

Explorer
I would think so, you could find it in the latest errata but I havent looked for some time.
1705507708206.png

Yup, sort of a weird removal but I guess they had reasons for it
 

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