Banning a Player from my Group. Am I Justified?

[KingCrab]

Why are you asking for our approval? You know what you need to do. You're the only one who can know, and you've already decided.

Well, I think part of why I'm asking is that I really needed to vent and I wanted to tell the story to some gamers outside our group.

The other part is that I wanted to hear what other gamers would say. I do know for certain that I wish this person would disappear from my game (and my life). He may very well want to get back into the game. I need to put my foot down and say no if he asks. Hearing that the other gamers would not tolerate his behavior helps me follow through. Thanks everyone for the support!

 

[Nifft]

I was wondering if as a DM, my actions were justified in this situation. I also probably need to vent.

One of the players in my current game has not been happy with the edition I’m running.

Justified.

He used to play 2ed with me back in high school (15 or so years ago). I started gaming again a year ago and began a campaign using the 3.5ed rules. This player refuses to get or read anything from the 3.5ed player’s handbook (often complaining that he still has his perfectly good 2ed player’s guide on his shelf at home.)

More than justified.

Over the last several sessions he’s made me really angry because he always stops the game to arguing about rules he doesn’t understand.

You've been doing yourself and the other players a disservice by not kicking him out sooner. Remedy this immediately, and buy beer for the good players. Or make them buy you beer. Whatever, you all deserve a beer for putting up with this crap.

Cheers! -- N

 

[KingCrab]

Heck, you cannot play ANY kind of game with someone who isn't willing to learn the game's rules - so if that's the case here, there's not even a question.

That is the case. The other players and I even offered to chip in and buy him a 3.5 PHB. He seems to almost like the power of not knowing the rules and arguing that his character has powers (when he doesn't) and arguing that monsters don't have powers (when they do). If he knew the way things worked, he couldn't fight me on everything.

For example, two gaming sessions ago, he kept insisting that his character didn't have to take full damage from breath weapons on a failed save because he had evasion. If he understood the difference between evasion and improved evasion, he wouldn't be able to argue the way he does in these situations. In a way, his ignorance keeps him safe. He may end up taking damage in the end, but if he does the whole group is going to get punished hearing him rant about how horrible the rules are.

 

[TheCrazyMuffinMan]

That is the case. The other players and I even offered to chip in and buy him a 3.5 PHB. He seems to almost like the power of not knowing the rules and arguing that his character has powers (when he doesn't) and arguing that monsters don't have powers (when they do). If he knew the way things worked, he couldn't fight me on everything.

For example, two gaming sessions ago, he kept insisting that his character didn't have to take full damage from breath weapons on a failed save because he had evasion. If he understood the difference between evasion and improved evasion, he wouldn't be able to argue the way he does in these situations. In a way, his ignorance keeps him safe. He may end up taking damage in the end, but if he does the whole group is going to get punished hearing him rant about how horrible the rules are.

Introduce him to the 3.5 book. Tell him to read and try to learn the parts that count before letting him into any more sessions. Give him one more session to either abide by the rules or decline politely.

Any, and I mean ANY trouble (unless it's an obvious accident or an honest mistake), and you have my full support in tossing the player, shadowgating (killing off in a detailed, obvious and rather absolute manner in order to vent frustration and ensure removal) his character, and not letting the player come back for quite some time, as he's either clearly determined to get his own way at all costs, or just irrevocably confused by 3.5

 

[Treebore]

If he is a friend of yours, I'd start by having a heart-to-heart conversation...away from the others and not on a game day. Just spell out what you're feeling and seeing...and let him do the same.

See if you can find a resolution. If not, be mature and agree to disagree and have him leave the game.

That's my 2 coppers.

This is the way I would approach it. He really needs to get with it, or get out.

Heck, sounds like he would even be a pain in C&C where all you have to do is declare an action, assign the challenge level, and roll. If the roll is good, you did it. He shouldn't even have joined a 3E game to begin with. He can find 2E games.

 

[AK Browncoat]

Apply the boot. Gaming time is precious, and while I think you could have handled the situation better, the player is question is being a complete ass. You don't need to play with someone that makes it not fun.

I don't need to read anymore comments in this thread. This response is perfect. The guy is not someone you want in your game.

 

[Digital Archon]

Kill him and take his stuff.

He'd approve, because it's the D&D way that he's familiar with.

Serious answer: Normally, i'd kick him out until he can show that he has read the PHB for the version of the game you are playing and can understand how the game works, then let him back in on a trial basis, but this is because he's being a chump, not because he doesn't know the rules.

I don't generally have a problem with someone who doesn't know all the rules right away, since we were all at that stage once, but i do like to see someone trying to get themselves up to speed by learning the game.

The argumentative part is, however, not a behavior that is likely to change simply because he learned to play. By allowing him to drag the game with lengthy rules-arguments, you are condoning the behavior, and by condoning it, you encourage it.

 

[Blood Jester]

Boot.
As fast as possible.

Speaking from dire experience, every minute he remains in your game reduces the likelyhood of your gaming group surviving as a group.

No joking here at all, really, boot.

 

[scourger]

This guy would be arguing with you even if you were running 2e. Perhaps even more so. Sounds like you've made your decision and that it is the right one for you. I know it's not easy, having been there myself, but you'll be happier in the long run.

I'm speaking from experience, BTW. I've got a buddy I've gamed with since 1984 or so. It took him a few years to try 3.0, and he still won't play any RPG but D&D...not even the mechanically similar D20 Modern Fantasy or another classic FRPG will gain his approval. As a result, I (and other GMs in the current game group) have to decide whether an RPG campaign idea I'd like to run is a D&D idea or not because that decision will perforce include or exclude him.

I'd rather have him at the table than not, but he's an adult. He can choose to join us or not, and if not, engage in something else he enjoys, like poker or hanging out with his baby boy.

I've got this guy in my group, too. It's why I've been running D&D again; and it's also why I really want to run something else again.

D&D has a lot of this kind of baggage (from both situations). It can make the game a lot of fun, but it can also make it not fun.

 

[Steel_Wind]

Resolve it if you can; kick him if you must.

I'd suggest one last convo on the point if it would be at all useful. If you are past caring or are certain it would not be worthwhile...do what you must.

You are absolved of all DM sin and yes, you are justified.