Banning Fly, Improved Invisibility, Dimension Door, and Teleport

[SlagMortar]

Watch out for very big tactically stupid melee monsters (giant insects, huge animated objects, huge zombies/skeletons, possibly some golems, some big dire animals, hydras). These creatures are all relatively low challenge rating for how nasty they are because they assume the party can keep out of reach and kill them from range. A collossal scorpion is easy to kill as long as you have enough arrows unless you end up in melee with it.

 

[TheGogmagog]

I would suggest a more subtle change. Bump them up one spell level. It will either make them less attractive and they probably won't be cast much, or they will still be cast in spite of the higher cost and your fears will have been justified.

Or as mentioned above, modify the mechanics slightly, TP only to somewhere you have been (and maybe even placed an invisible arcane mark cantrip, which could possibly be removed with a dispel magic). Perhaps you phase in and out like the star trek teleporter, over 5 rounds like wind walk. A minor change the retains the basic premis but reduces the tactic you hate.

In a recent campaing our DM raised haste to 4th level. It was only learned through a scroll for item creation purposes. On the other hand at the time the party had 3 casters, a spring attack person, a crossbow person, a duskblade (standard action to charge sword), an archer and one defensive fighter. So only the archer and the wimpy fighter would have benefited from the extra attacks. So, it's hard to tell if it would have been cast as much as in a group full of melee fighters and summoned monsters.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

One thing you could do is make a list of scroll-only spells. They can't be memorized or cast in any way but a scroll

Something like that could really limit the use of those spells.

 

[Festivus]

Why not just have a pterydactyl swoop down on the caster as he is flying if you feel it might be a bad thing. Personally, I would reward the creativity of overcoming the situation. Besides, if this is the area I am thinking of he is gonna be bummed for burning that spell slot on fly later in the morning.

 

[Wish]

I agree that this is likely to cause some problems, both in mechanical terms as well as potential hard feelings on the part of the player whose character you've singled out for restriction. Would you be comfortable playing in a game where the DM told you that you (and only you) couldn't use basic, staple PHB options for your character?

On the other hand, the DM is supposed to have fun too, and if these spells really eat at you, I don't see how you're going to do that.

 

[charlesatan]

On the other hand, the DM is supposed to have fun too, and if these spells really eat at you, I don't see how you're going to do that.

I think some of our issue here isn't necessarily removing them per se, but removing them in the context of The Savage Tide adventure path. Teleport is moot at the early levels but based from the previous adventure paths, come high levels, you might need to travel in a hurry. Same goes with Fly/Dimension Door, it might be necessary to overcome an obstacle. Greater Invisibility is probably the most disposable of the four.

If it was the GM's own adventure, sure, you can take them out. Just make sure to account for those changes in the game. Like Wall of Force becomes a bit too effective without a Disintegrate since the teleport spells are gone. And flying monsters are generally a threat to everyone.

 

[ScipioX]

Man, people are such party poopers when anybody proposes deviating from RAW.

I say go for it.

Adventures that REQUIRE an arcanist are already poorly written. While they're useful, arcanists shouldn't (and usually aren't) required. So knocking out a few spells is hardly gonna make or break the game. Just keep in mind a few things like flying Mobs in the open will be a bit tougher.


Personally I think those spells are all annoying as well. Dimension door is probably the least offensive of the lot, as its a one shot 4th level spell that doesn't allow instant travel back to town. I'd also knock out fireball and magic missile as well, if you want to force arcanists to be creative.

You might also consider giving something back, since you're taking something away. Maybe d6 HP instead of d4. That also helps alleviates the problem of the wizard getting splatted on the surprise round.

Another suggestion would be to improve the jump spell a bit, since its nigh well useless as is. +10 to jump checks is a whioe nother 1.25 feet in the air... whee.

 

[DevoutlyApathetic]

Here's the relevant issue.

That is: you are DMing a published adventure series which - when written - assumed the PCs would have access to all the core spells. You've removed several key core spells. There could be problems.

Exactly. I know our wizard would be dead about 3 times over just within the last module from the bans you've put in place. Kinda silly and peevish honestly.

 

[Darklone]

I do like DimDoor. I don't like Imp Invis. I don't care about Tport (Phantom steed is cooler!). Fly: Too easy, too good manoeverability and too low leveled for my taste, I'd like to see Levitate used longer.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Exactly. I know our wizard would be dead about 3 times over just within the last module from the bans you've put in place. Kinda silly and peevish honestly.

Maybe. Or maybe he would have developed alternative tactics. You've cited one of the problems of these spells: players become so dependent on them that they use them as a crutch rather than develop new/different tactics.

I agree that spells like teleport and wind walk and fly can grate on the nerves from time to time (actually, more than from time to time). Dimension door I don't have as much of a problem with.

WotC designers have talked about the need to nerf some spells that are no-brainers that everyone always takes. In the next edition of the game, I'd like to see greater limitation on the spells in question. Maybe additional spell components or an XP cost (I think more appropriate for teleport than fly) to prevent them from being used excessively. Banning them outright is kinda harsh (although I did ban teleport b/c our campaign is slow-moving and traditional travel-based), but if players are using them constantly then it may be appropriate. I would, however, highly recommend advising players of this before the campaign begins. If you're screwing players mid-campaign, that's not very nice.