Level Up (A5E) Barbarian: Enhanced Vitality is....pretty bad.

[Stalker0]

The reprint has changed Enhanced Vitality, but now rather than merely pretty bad, it seems almost entirely worthless.



Now, using Con to make saves against what would normally require a mental stat save would be a huge boon for the Berserker, who is likely to have dumped at least one mental stat. However it's limited to effects that deal half damage on success. And my first thought is, are there even any such spells?

Doing a search of the spells in the PDF, I only found two spells (one Int, one Wis) that have a mental stat save that halves damage. Since you can only pick one stat for this to work with, it seems like this feature allows you to choose one single spell that you can roll a Con save on to reduce damage, instead of Int or Wis (there are no Cha options).

I also started searching the monster manual to see if this is useful on some non-spell abilities, but so far am not finding anything different than the usual spell expectations, where mental saves are almost always for status effects, and for the few that do damage, it's all or nothing, not save for half.

Am I missing something? This seems beyond horrible, particularly compared to Preternatural Evasion.

Yep, total garbage. It was my first house rule, I just let the Berserker choose one of the stats and replace it with Con (no half save required). That's at least a debate between that and the other ability. Further it puts less burden on the DM, they don't have to keep telling the player "oh this is an int save for half"....if its an int save, the player just knows to use their ability.

 

[Stone Dog]

I could see replacing Dex saves for Con saves for a slow, tanky brawler, so the old one I was okay with. If you don't have a high dex, a high con can cover you. Sure.

I could see replacing normal saves with Con saves for mind affecting spells, but I completely agree that there is no point in taking the mental version of Enhanced Vitality with the way it stands.

Maybe if it worked off of anything that did psychic damage and not just spell saves for spells that barely exist, it would be better for some campaigns.

 

[Faolyn]

I'll look through the MM for you (just for damaging effects, not for abilities that inflict conditions).

Mental Saves for Half Damage
Amethyst dragon's Breath Weapon (Wis)
Coven Night Hag's Fragmentary Dream (Wis)
Emerald dragon's Breath Weapon (Wis)
Murmuring worm's Murmuring Madness (Int)
Nalfeshnee's Chaos Blast (Wis)
Revenant's Burning Hatred (Wis)
Sapphire dragon's Breath Weapon (Int) and Psionic Wave (Wis)
Shadow dragon's Breath Weapon (Wis)
Solar Counselor's Light of Judgement (Cha)
Ur-Otyugh's Mental Fuzz (Int)

Mental Saves for No Damage
Ancient Aboleth's Look Upon My Works: Wis save, no damage.
Banshee's Presage Death: Wis save, no damage.
Chain Devil's Unnerving Mask: Wis save, no damage.
Khalakos' Psionic Sting: Int save, no damage.
Forgotten God's Stunning Gaze: Cha save, no damage.
Horde Demon's Baleful Eyes or Whispering Mouth: Wis save, no damage.
Intellect Devourer's Ego Whip: Int save for damage instead of basically death.
Revilock's Shared Pain: Int save, no damage.
Sea Hag's Death Glare: Wis save for damage instead of death.
Solar's Deafening Command: Cha save, no damage.
Solar Counselor's Divine Command: Cha save, no damage.

Mental Save Spells that Inflict Half Damage
Conjure Fey (hound only) (Wis)
Eldritch Cube (Int)
Phantasmal Killer (on initial save only) (Wis)
Spirit Guardians (Wis)

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So all-in-all, slightly less bad than you were thinking, but still pretty bad. At this point, I think I'd change the ability so that you can always use it for one of those stats, but 1/short or long rest you can also use it for any mental save you want, no matter the stat, even if it doesn't deal damage.

 

[Satirical Bard]

looks like you'd definitely want to take Wisdom!

 

[Stone Dog]

looks like you'd definitely want to take Wisdom!

I'd definitely want to take Preternatural Agility and not even look at Enhanced Vitality without houseruling it.

 

[Xaielao]

The update is an improvement, but I agree with Kinematics who did the research. Only 1 spell in the entire game for Int or Wis (and none for Cha) means this is a major oversite by the developers. Hopefully they are aware of that and will make a change.

 

[Garmel]

The update is an improvement, but I agree with Kinematics who did the research. Only 1 spell in the entire game for Int or Wis (and none for Cha) means this is a major oversite by the developers. Hopefully they are aware of that and will make a change.

This and Wounding Strike are in need of errata.

 

[Stone Dog]

Okay, I don't see how this new one is an improvement at all. Maybe I'm missing something, though so here are my thoughts on it a bit more detailed. Maybe somebody can point out what I'm not seeing?

Old Version
When you make a Dexterity saving throw against an effect that deals half damage on a success, you can choose to use your Constitution saving throw bonus or substitute your armor bonus.

This one at least has a point for low DEX or heavy armor Berserkers taking the Juggernaut class ability. It shores up a weakness against a pretty common type of saving throw by substituting a key ability bonus. If I was going to tank around with heavy armor and be a juggernaut I'd take this ability over Preternatural Agility easily. Otherwise, I'd go with PA. It is a choice that benefits either of two paths you set up when you choose your Battle Defense at level one depending on if you went high DEX or not.

New Version
Choose Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma. When you make the chosen saving throw against an effect that deals half damage on a success, you can choose to instead make a Constitution saving throw.

If you take the best of the three options here (Wisdom, by a country mile. No contest.) then you get a weakness shored up, sure... but against a much rarer set of circumstances. Such a rare set of circumstances in fact that if you told me that the New Version replaced all three of INT, WIS, or CHA saves with CON saves vs half damage effects, I don't think that I'd pause before discarding Enhanced Vitality completely and going with Preternatural Agility regardless of my DEX score.


TL;DR
If I took the new version, I'd be at the mercy of the Narrator putting in effects specifically so my ability would feel useful. If I took the old version, there are almost always DEX saves for half damage, right?

 

[Stalker0]

This one at least has a point for low DEX or heavy armor Berserkers taking the Juggernaut class ability. It shores up a weakness against a pretty common type of saving throw by substituting a key ability bonus. If I was going to tank around with heavy armor and be a juggernaut I'd take this ability over Preternatural Agility easily. Otherwise, I'd go with PA. It is a choice that benefits either of two paths you set up when you choose your Battle Defense at level one depending on if you went high DEX or not.

Feel free to look at the beginning of this thread for the math, but the basic jist is that damage reduction wise.... PA is 100% better than the old EH....no question, no exception. EH could give you +10000000 to your save.....still would be weaker than PA.

The ONLY case in which EH could be better, was if you had a dexterity for half effect that also included a condition...but as I showed early in the thread, unless your facing a lot of dragons this is just a very rare thing.

So the fundamental change is understandable, the new EH doesn't try to compete with PA (because it really can't), and instead gives you benefits on a different save. That's a good idea, the problem is, the new ability is SOOO incredibly niche that it just makes it worthless.

 

[Stone Dog]

Okay, I feel dumb, sorry Stalker0. I was seeing the numbers, but I wasn't getting how the math actually applied to play.

Example Berserker with 18 CON and 10 DEX, going for a juggernaut build.

Old EV- DEX save for Half damage is +7 at 7th level instead of +0.
PA- Half damage is automatic. DEX save for no damage is +0.

I didn't fully get it until I typed that out. Sheesh.

However, I still like the idea, one side supporting a slow but steady tank and the other side supporting a nimble striker type. Maybe just giving the berserker a renamed Evasion is the wrong way to go there in the first place. Old EV not too weak, but PA too strong.

I'll have to think about that for an alternate.