Bard 7 path to Arcane Trickster

[Herzog]

Hi.

I currently have a [sblock=Bard lvl 7]Race: Human
Str 7
Dex 12
Con 11
Int 16
Wis 8
Cha 13

I've got Improved Initiative, Improved Feint, Soothe the Beast and Combat Expertise.

I've got 9 ranks in Bluff, 9 ranks in Concentration, 9 ranks in Craft(Musical Instruments), 9 ranks in Diplomacy, 4 ranks in intimidate, 9 ranks in Knowledge (religion), 10 ranks in Perform(Oratory), 9 ranks in perform(string instruments), 9 ranks in Sense Motive, 9 ranks in Spellcraft and 5 ranks in Survival.

I've got the Spells: 0: Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Know Direction, Message, Read magic, 1: Alarm, Comprehend Languages, Identify, Sleep, 2: Eagle's Splendor, Enthrall, Hypnotic Pattern, Sonic Weapon.[/sblock]
and after much thoughts I have decided to go for the Arcane Trickster prestige class.
To do that, I need to fulfill the [sblock=AT requirements]

• Decipher Script 7 ranks
• Disable Device 7 ranks
• Escape Artist 7 ranks
• Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks.
• Spells: Ability to cast mage hand and at least one arcane spell of
  3rd level or higher.
• Special: Sneak attack +2d6.[/sblock]

Which basically means I have to take at least another level of bard (both to get third lvl spells and to replace one of my 0 lvl spells with mage hand).
I am planning to use the PHBII retraining rules to replace Improved Feint and Soothe the Beast with Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot, going mostly for ranged sneak attacks.

Most important question:
What do you recommend to get that +2d6 sneak attack?
Just three lvls of rogue? or are there more interesting options?
(NB: most books and rules open except Tob:Bo9S and skilltricks.)
Also, what spells and additional Feats (lvl 9 in particular) would you recommend for a bard/(rogue?)/Arcane Trickster

Herzog

 

[moritheil]

AED (Rokugani) Ninja will help you fill that with full BAB. It's technically 3rd party but the AED corporation was the source of all the Rokugan material in OA.

If that doesn't work, just go assassin.

 

[roguerouge]

To get those 25 ranks, you're going to need 3 levels in bard and rogue anyway... Also, be careful: it's very rare for rogues to get ranged sneak attacks as they have to be within 30' and have to have their target be denied dex.

 

[roguerouge]

Basically, you'll need Bard 8/Rogue 3/Arcane Trickster 1. If you want to try the archer route, I recommend going for Scout and then trying to persuade your dm that skirmish and sneak attacking are functionally the same.

 

[blargney the second]

Unseen Seer is good if you can qualify.

 

[Herzog]

@roguerouge:
I am aware of the 'problems' of getting ranged sneak attacks. However, I should try to keep my bard out of melee combat, so ranged sneak is my best option.
Also, there's a feat (or spell?) that increases the sneak attack range to 60', so that should improve my chances. (can't remember where I read it, have to look it up some time)

About the Scout: that would mean 5 levels of scout befor I have +2d6 scirmish. that's too many levels of spellcasting I will loose.

@blargney:
Did you mean 1 lvl rogue, 1 lvl unseen seer, combined for the +2d6 sneak attack? otherwise, I see no benefit from that class.
Silent Spell is useless for Bards, divination spell power means all other schools get a caster level penalty, and you have to take 4 levels to get at 2d6 damage bonus.
Only other benefit is that spellcasting keeps increasing.

Or did you mean Unseen Seer as alternative to Arcane Trickster?
That would mean at least 4 lvls of bard to fill the 8 points in hide, search and spot, since i have 10 skillpoints/lvl and search and spot are cross-class skills for the bard....which means their max at lvl 11 is going to be 7, which means I need one of those lvls to be in a class that has them as a class skill......
I think I'll skip that route.

@moritheil:
sorry, should have said official books only. (no dragon magazine as well). However, the Ninja class appears in the Complete Adventurer as well, so I have taken a look at that one.
I have a Wisdom penalty, and the ninja requires no armor to use ki powers, but the poison use gained at lvl 3 sounds good.
I can't go assasin because that requires evil alignment, and that's just a no-go in our group.

the sudden strike seems identical to sneak attack except it desn't apply when flanking, but since ranged flanking isn't possible, that's not a problem. Also, the sidebar with the ninja class specifically mentions that sudden strike should be considered the equivalent of sneak attack for the purpose of qualifying for feats and prestige classes.

Looks like I will be taking a closer look at the pro's and con's of the ninja....

thankx!

 

[blargney the second]

I was thinking you could use a level or two of Unseen Seer to help get the SA requirement for Trickster. You could also ask your DM if you can trade Silent Spell for Still Spell or maybe Sunsonics, which are still appropriate to the PrC.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

(NB: most books and rules open except Tob:Bo9S and skilltricks.)

Two feats from Tome of Battle. First will be Martial Study and taken at level 2+ (if a first level maneuver), or level 6+ (if a second level maneuver). I'd recommend Cloak of Deception, a level 2 swift action to go invisible till the end of your turn, which you can use once/encounter. So that'd be your level 6 feat. Then at level 9, Take Martial Stance for assassin's Stance. This stance gives you +2d6 sneak attack, all the time. Done.

You could also just take two levels in the Swordsage class, but this allows you to stick with Bard all the way.

Nevermind. Umm...you could consider Scout + Improved Skirmish, maybe? It's hard to sneak attack ranged. Or maybe dip Ninja if you're going to need at least 3 levels. Sudden Strike counts as sneak attack, but can't use from flanking. If you're focusing on ranged, who cares? The ki pool will give you several rounds per day of invisibility, to make ranged sneaks easier.

 

[Herzog]

@StreamOfTheSky:
nice of you to leave the text.

Yes, I know of the ToB possibilities. It's just that the group has decided (for now) that we don't want to introduce a new set of rules, which stances and maneuvers basically are, as well as skilltricks.

Improved Skirmish requires +2d6 skirmish damage.... or even +4d6 and character level 20+ if you meant the epic variant. so that doesn't work.

I'm currently looking at Ninja (although with my wisdom of 8, I'm missing out on some stuff.) and at Rogue, and comparing them.
The Ghost step and poison use of the ninja are nice.....

@blargney:
Since 2 of the 3 skills required for Unseen Seer are cross class for bards, I'd need to get at least one lvl of rogue, and probably two, to get to Unseen Seer, and then take at least 2 levels of unseen seer to get the skill requirements for AT. Although I'd loose 2 levels of spellcasting instead of 3, the (other) benefits of the UU are minimal in my opinion, making 3 levels of Ninja or Rogue still a better option.

or, I could take 1 level of rogue and one level of ninja.....
although that would mean I miss out on (either) evasion or ghost step. which are both good options.

 

[blargney the second]

Damn, I always forget about cross-class skills. We house-ruled them into oblivion and life has been much much simpler.