Bard does not suck!

If all your enemies were thin pieces of crystal that stood still for you, that would make perfect sense. However a singer CAN NOT set up resonance in a person to deal damage to them. That is how physics works in our world. The movie Push is not real.

Perhaps, but we're not talking about a singer unamplified.

If you want to talk about physics.... 130dB is called 'the threshhold of pain' where sound can do very real damage. At 160dB, you have the instant perforation of the eardrum.

At anything higher than that, you have flesh being burned from sound itself.

Now, try to convince me that a singer, in a fantasy game, amplified by the power of the cosmos itself, and magical mojo, can't do things with magic that sound can do in the real world.
 

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Bards are not killing monsters with songs, or blowing heads up with the sound of their voice...

They are killing monsters with either magically-enhanced weapon attacks or with spells.

(In 1e, 2e, and 3e, you may have noticed Bards doing one or both of these things, with varying degrees of efficiency.)

They use music to evoke their magic, true. But is this really more ridiculous than an arcane chant or a quick little prayer to a remote deity?

-O
 

No more snarkiness, folks. Insults aren't okay.

Epochrpg, I'm not bothered by music causing damage, but I have a bard in my game who isn't musical. Instead, she's the heir of a famous merchant house, and she wants to inspire through epic leadership and inspiring words. I was trying to decide how to reconcile the two.

I decided that she magically channels the might of her family's fame and prestige. When she hurts someone with her powers, she's not just yelling at them; she focusing a full vision of her Empire's might and grandeur upon them, and as a scion of the Empire this rush of shame and insignificance can actually destroy a foe's will to survive. It's a little bit like the Total Perspective Vortex, all bottled up in bard form.
 

(Post Edited and Deleted - I had to do work before I hit the Post button, and so missed Piratecat's "DON'T MAKE ME TURN THIS CAR AROUND!" post. ;))

-O
 
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Wow. I guess I should have put on my flame retardant jacket before posting my opinion about the bard class.
Rather than the rather snarky post I had written, I'll try to reasonably address your points. :)

While I definately like alot of their abilities the thing I HATE about the 4e bard is that their music does damage. What the heck? My friend said "the song is so sad, you want to die" as the explaination, but that sounds crazy. It reminds me of the bards from various video game rpgs, like Edward in Final Fantasy IV (II originally here in the states).
Well... I can't let this one slide completely. Any time you bring up the dreaded WoW/Final Fantasy/Diablo/Other Videogame Comparisons of Doom, you're going to raise some hackles. Also, you're being kind of glib about this topic, and I don't know if you're trying to make it seem more ridiculous or actually trying to understand it - I'm not sure, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

So... the bard's songs are not actually killing things. Their music is not actually doing damage. Their voices are not setting up reverberations which shatter bones. Much like a Wizard, they are casting spells. And, much like a Swordmage, they are magically enhancing their weapon attacks, too. It's part and parcel of being an Arcane class. They just evoke magic through song, rather than through a few "Abracadabra"s or a few "Dear-God-Please-Smite-My-Enemy-Amen"s.

I'll skip the Gambler class, because I don't think you were being serious. You evidently thought it would also be ridiculous, and maybe somehow show how ridiculous the bard is in your mind. I agree - the gambler would be ridiculous, so it's fortunate that we don't have one of those.

I think the bard would be better if they used regular weapons to attack and songs to only do special effects (buffs, grant actions to allies, dominate/slide foes, etc). I could picture one sort of charm spell "vs. Will: pull enemy CHA squares closer. Make a secondary attack vs. the enemy if they are within reach of your weapon". That'd be cool, and bardy, but not cause my brain to hurt. I just can reconcile the "music does damage" thing.
Well, hopefully you can get a different perspective. Just don't think of it as music actually doing stuff - it's arcane magic doing the stuff, much like what a Wizard does, and really no more ridiculous. IMHO, if you can accept that a wizard casts spells with magic words and gestures, it's not much of a stretch to accept that a bard can cast spells with magic melodies and gestures.

If I ever GM, and someone plays a bard, all enemies have DR 50 to music damage.
I think this is another reason folks kinda reacted badly to your post - including myself. This is a very dismissive way to handle any questions; it's like you're not even engaging with the concept on a level where you can productively discuss it. Glib dismissals don't go over too well on teh intarwebs unless it's to a room full of like-minded folks for a few lulz. If lulz are what you were going for, I think it's a little crazy to assert you were "just stating your opinion" and hence ... I dunno, your ideas were immune to criticism?

-O
 

Wow. I guess I should have put on my flame retardant jacket before posting my opinion about the bard class.

All these edition wars and what-not sets everyone on edge. :) I think you had very valid points.

It just goes back to the D&D trope of "Magic! It doesn't have to make SENSE!" Piratecat already gave an awesome example of refluffing things. And remember there IS a melee build for the Bard, if ya so desire.
 

Now I totally want to play a "norseman" half-elf bard in chainmail with a longsword, looking like he stepped out of the Northlanders comic book (mature audiences, but kickass).

Northlanders%2B%233%2B000.jpg
 
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It just goes back to the D&D trope of "Magic! It doesn't have to make SENSE!"

The Bard DOES have the magic card so it's much easier to believe something like that, however something like the Warlord DOESN'T have the magic card and they're doing much the same thing. What surprises me is someone is against the Bard being unbelievable when there is something so completely crazy like the Warlord. Oh well. I think the bard makes a better warlord than the warlord and the warlord a better bard than the bard!
 

After messing around with builds the in the char gen, I gotta say the bard truly rocks. It just seems like fun to have all those multiclass options (on paper anyway). As to bardic magic causing damage, I really have no problem with that. I see it as mental assaults that are part arcane, and partly it represents cutting the foe's resolve (aka hps). I don't want to derail this into a "what hps represent thread", but I also didn't have problems with illusion magic causing damage for similar reasons.

And not to put too fine a point on it, but there are a fair amount of 'tricky' powers that don't do any damage. Level 5 song of discord simply dominates one foes (which rocks btw!).
 

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