D&D 5E Bard exists, now make YOUR Bard. (+)

[CreamCloud0]

So, a question:

For those of you who included 'half caster'... why?

Historically, I've found half casters to be a consistent disappointment; never getting enough other options to make the loss of the top three spell levels worth it, and the progression gets screwed up because the spells rarely have their levels adjusted so you get them at the level where they're useful. I remember my 3x bards always getting hold or dominate monster months after the wizard was able to get them.

because, even if they don't get the higher level spells til far too late, there are still a plethora of useful low-level utility spells that don't need to scale from upcasting: alarm, bane/bless, charm person, healing word, comprehend languages, detect magic, disguise self, entangle, faerie fire, feather fall, find familiar, fog cloud, goodberry, identify, jump, mage armour, speak with animals, unseen servant, all those just from 1st level (even if from across several spell lists but with more magical secrets that myself and many others included that's a moot point), those are the sorts of things perfect for the jack of all trades utility and support class that many see the bard as.

 

[Vaalingrade]

because, even if they don't get the higher level spells til far too late, there are still a plethora of useful low-level utility spells that don't need to scale from upcasting: alarm, bane/bless, charm person, healing word, comprehend languages, detect magic, disguise self, entangle, faerie fire, feather fall, find familiar, fog cloud, goodberry, identify, jump, mage armour, speak with animals, unseen servant, all those just from 1st level (even if from across several spell lists but with more magical secrets that myself and many others included that's a moot point), those are the sorts of things perfect for the jack of all trades utility and support class that many see the bard as.

Then shouldn't they get like way more spells known/per day, something halfcasters never get?

 

[CreamCloud0]

Then shouldn't they get like way more spells known/per day, something halfcasters never get?

i don't know if 'way more' is needed, sure maybe +casting mod spells for that extra bump, but their draw is that they get to branch out across all spell lists and cherry pick the low hanging fruit for their needs, their access is wide not deep,

but give them expertise and fullcaster ritual progression, you've got a character who can turn themselves to anything.

 

[Minigiant]

So, a question:

For those of you who included 'half caster'... why?

Historically, I've found half casters to be a consistent disappointment; never getting enough other options to make the loss of the top three spell levels worth it, and the progression gets screwed up because the spells rarely have their levels adjusted so you get them at the level where they're useful. I remember my 3x bards always getting hold or dominate monster months after the wizard was able to get them.

The issue isn't half casters.

The issue is TSR, WOTC, and more designers in that sphere halfway caring about the magic of half casters.

Bards weren't casting bard spells.
Bard were casting wizard spells and cleric spells with half the slots and progression.
It's like that UA Ranger where they made Conjure Volley/Barrage a ranger class feature and ranger only then buffed it.

A Bard exclusive 3rd level spell could be allowed to be as strong as a Wizard's 5th level spell.

 

[ezo]

For those of you who included 'half caster'... why?

For 5E, because bards already get to do everything. They can fight well, have expertise, more skills, etc. and are full casters! It's just too much IMO.

Bards are not full practioners of magic, but should pick things up here and there, etc. As such, there should not be a "bard spell list", Bards can gain spells from any spell list.

Now, I agree with your assessment that getting spell levels at later points can make them seem lack-luster. So, I think the solution (which is something we changed and maybe you'll like it...) is a change in spell progression. NOTE: Spells Known for Bards do NOT include their Magical Secrets feature!

As you can see, this progression grants half-casters higher spell levels a bit quicker, which in turn also grants them more spell slots.

 

[Zardnaar]

Bard as a half caster thoughts.

Inspiring song. Some sort of bless type effect. Doesn't count as a spell, ends up at will and as a bonus action. Reversible for Thunder damage?

Various magical songs. Healing espicially. Refreshes on a short rest.

Some sort of damage via song.

Less spells more control and support built in.

And really push the song aspect. Probably short rest based as well.

 

[ezo]

And really push the song aspect.

LOL please NO!

Bards are more than just singers and players of instruments.

IMO their powers should come from any form of expression which can inspire others or make things harder for them.

Here's an example from one of my groups current 5E hack:

 

[Zardnaar]

LOL please NO!

Bards are more than just singers and players of instruments.

IMO their powers should come from any form of expression which can inspire others or make things harder for them.

Here's an example from one of my groups current 5E hack:

View attachment 345330

Taunts also work. Anything that replaces spells Essentially.

 

[Aldarc]

Homer would probably be what some may consider a Bard and the way he portrayed Odysseus is probably much like what one may envision a Bard in many ways as well. D&D players probably wouldn't think that Odysseus is a Bard, but in some ways he is portrayed in much they way one may see a historical/mythological character as such.

Odysseus was a Warlord!

 

[steeldragons]

Odysseus was a Warlord!

He was also, explicitly, a poet, charmer/influencer, and trickster... Besides, imo, the case is easily made for a "Warlord" as a subclass of bard (e.g. the Bard who leans warrior-leader...vs. a Skald subclass who would be more "bard who leans into barbarian/warrior-in-the-field.")