Bard Multi-Classing

[Brudewollen]

I chose my distribution of stats (low strength) partly for RP reasons. My character is a castrato singer, that is to say he was castrated before puberty to reduce his testosterone and preserve his high, youthful voice - consequently, castrati tend to be a bit soft in the muscle department (this is an RP heavy campaign, so that kind of stuff goes over well with the DM). Also, he's not terribly religious. He was sold into slavery at a young age by his parents to pay off debts and was eventually bought by one of the churches who still own him (yes, he's still a slave). The point is, he's not terribly religious so Crusader probably doesn't work for him and he doesn't even worship the god of the church who owns him. If anything, he somewhat resents that god and his worshipers, including the PC Cleric in the party whom he serves. The church mostly makes him sing at their masses and such or hires him out for various errands with the PC cleric, or to work on theater shows to make money off of his talents and other such things. Anyway, Crusader doesn't sound much like the class for him for all those reasons.

What are Warblades like?

Is there a need to do Rogue before going into Assassin? I should be able to make Assassin by 5th lvl if I start really focusing my skills on it starting next level. What bonuses do I get for switching now for 2 levels than sticking with bard and getting the most out those abilities?

What about Sorcerer for multi-classing with Bard? Two spell casting class, sure, but the stats at least mesh well and it means a lot more spells per day and more choices. We actually don't have a decent arcane spell caster in the group, I was pretty much it as the Bard. We may have just picked up an NPC caster - I'm not sure he'll want to stay with us, though but he might be compelled to for various story reasons.

I can't do Arcane Archer because I'm human. I had considered that, until I remembered it's only for Elves and 1/2 Elves. Even so, Bard spells don't always make good Arcane Archer magics.

 

[nittanytbone]

Your friends are correct in that bards are somewhat underpowered at every level. However, as you have seen, bards ROCK when dealing with social situations or with creatures that are vulnerable to sonic, mind-affecting language based affects (like many urban encounters). You've got your niche, and it sounds like your DM lets you shine in it from time to time, so that's good.

With the exception of the Bo9S stuff above, I would advise AGAINST multiclassing.

Your spellcasting progression is already glacial; don't do anything to make it even slower. The bard list has some good spells on it, and you can use scrolls and wands out the wazoo, so dipping fighter or rogue just slows down access to the good stuff.

Ditto for going assassin. It makes your SP situation even worse, hurts spellcasting progression, and makes your BAB issues even worse.

I would suggest sticking with Bard until you hit qualifications for Sublime Chord. This is a great PrC for bards who want to get more out of their spellcasting (its in Complete Arcane or Adventurer, I forget which).

What are your feats?

Can you use the retraining rules from PHB2?

 

[Shin Okada]

Bard/Sorc will not work that well. You can cast a lot of spells but cannot cast higher level spells needed for your character level. And even if you take two Practiced Spellcaster feat for both Bard and Sorcerer, your low caster level will eventually make you almost useless as an adventurer.

Well, then, how about Chameleon prestige class in Races of Destiny? This is a rather complex class and some say broken. But anyway, you can be a warrior one day, a wizard another day, a cleric on the other day, then a rogue in the next day. Straight 5th-level bard can qualify for this prestige class. Or you can take 1 or 2 level of fighter before it. The only problem is that you need Able Learner feat at 1st character level. So you must negotiate with your DM. IMHO this feat matches to the background of your character (sold slave must learn anything one's master orders, or suffer).

 

[Kat']

How 'bout Bard 7/Divine Oracle 2/Druid 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 10? Requires that your DM rules that precient sense = evasion, but given that both work exactly the same, shouldn't be a problem. Using fractional BAB you get 16 BAB, arcane casting and bardic music as a level 19 bard, and divine casting as a level 11 druid.

 

[rgard]

If you want to be more useful in combat situations, try 2 levels of Fighter and 2 levels of Martial Rogue from UA. You'll get +3 on your bab and 4 feats. Of course you completely stop your spellcasting advancement for the 4 level diversion.

Another route is to do Spellsword, but you'll need to take one level of fighter or other martial class that gives all the armor and shield proficiencies (don't need Tower Shield for this PrC.) You slow your spellcasting advancement with this one too, but you do get the +1 per level bab.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Thurbane]

A 1 or 2 level dip into Marshal can be extremely beneficial for a character with High CHA. It also nets you full Martial Weapon Proficiency.

It might be an odd build, but you could go for Bard X/Marshal 1/Edritch Knight...

 

[Thurbane]

OK, I've got my books in front of me now, and any more than a 1 level dip into Marshal wouldn't be much use.I might suggest Bard 7/Marshal 1/Eldritch Knight X.

Eldritch Knight will keep your spell progression up (except for the first level), and a good BAB, but it only has d6 hit dice.

 

[Stalker0]

I will also make a point against multiclassing.

The Bard pretty much already is a multiclass, as you get a bit of everything. You get 2 good saves, mid range spells, medium BAB, a lot of skills, etc etc.

Why are you looking to multiclass out of Bard? If your worried about the combat aspect, you will likely hurt yourself even more in combat by multiclassing out of bard. Instead, there are feats in complete adventurer especially that can help you use your music to do some combat buffs. Also, feats like arcane strike can allow you to convert spell energy into melee attack and damage.

 

[InVinoVeritas]

If you insist on multi-classing, then Bard/Ranger (Favored Enemy Human) is an excellent core way to go. You have to be willing to forgo spell progression in order to take the path, though. You'll do a great job in the cities, and if you can be an Urban Ranger, all the better.

Alternately, if you want to replace spell power with melee prowess, then you can go Bard/Dragon Disciple. However, with your Strength, I wouldn't recommend the melee route. Similarly, with your not-particularly-high Intelligence, I don't think Duelist is the best choice, either.

If you're looking to maximize spell power, then Sublime Chord is hands down the way to go.

With your Dexterity and Charisma being high, I'd stick to Bard only, Bard/Sublime Chord, or Bard/Ranger. Work on your archery; the Point Blank Shot feat series will net you more than Weapon Finesse in this case because you should be singin' and slingin'. Also, part of playing the Bard is to keep in mind that you are not the heavy hitter; Bards do lots of assisting and little scoring.

The Bard, however, is the very best party manager. The Bard's spells are mind-affecting, environmental type stuff. Stuff like Use Magic Device and the second-string abilities mean that you can fill in for just about any role in a pinch. The most successful Bards I've seen are always asking what they can do right that moment to make it as easy as possible for the party as a whole to be successful. Bards find the leads for adventures, haggle, manage the party's contacts, and boost the other party members' abilities at just the right time. If you can relish that role, then Bards are awesome.

 

[Quartz]

How about aiming for Divine Crusader then Mystic Theurge for maximum Cha-monkey goodness? Bard 6 / Ftr 2 / DC 2 / MT 8 / Bard +2.

But stick with Bard for the moment.