Bard Multi-Classing

[Shin Okada]

Re-reading the original post, the basic problem is that the poster is afraid of that once the songs and spells for the day is used up, his bard become useless. Actually, IMHO, It may be solved, depend on the availability of magic items in the campaign.

Unless your campaign is low-magic one, you can buy (or your comrades can make) various magic items. Now Use Magic Device is one of the truly strong skill.

Your bard is hitting the 3rd level. So now you can have 6 ranks of UMD skill. And your bard has CHA of +3. Now +9 in total. Maybe you can take Skill Focus (Use Magic Device) and now your UMD modifier is +12. And if you take 5 ranks of Spellcraft, it gives +2 synergy bonus to UMD when involving magic scrolls.

UMD +12 means you can activate any Spell Trigger items (read as any wands or Staves) if you roll 8 or higher. That means you can activate them about 2 in 3 chance. Even if you roll 1, the result is 13 and enough to avoid mishap.

Using scrolls are slightly difficult. But there will be not much trouble using low level scrolls as your modifier is +14 now.

Continue to be a bard and take more ranks in UMD. With some amount of wands and scrolls, you will surely have something to do even when you have used up all of your songs and spells.

 

[joshjurg]

you could always splash a little bit of warlock in there - there's always something for those guys to do !

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I'm in a new campaign and we're about to hit 3rd level (we might have already, depending on how much XP the DM gives us for last night's session). I plan to take at least this level in Bard as well, but I'm starting to realize how limited they can be once they blow their few spells and Bard Songs, at least at this level. This is the first time I've played a Bard, so maybe I just need a bit of patience before finding how useful they will become, but others in my group have had experience in the class and report that even in higher levels they sometimes feel a bit useless when combat rolls around, or goes on too long.

He's damn useful for interacting in the city we're campaigning in and at times I seem to be the one doing most of the "heavy lifting" in that respect - it has been an urban set game so far, though I think we're due to go out into the wilderness in a few levels, considering what my DM has designed about his world.

So I've been thinking about multi-classing now, either taking some levels in another class to make him more useful or working towards a good prestige class that gives him some other options.

The Prestige class that seem like it might work best are Assassin (we have started getting involved with some assassin types, and possibly might be allowed to...or forced to work with them on something). Alignment won't be a problem as a) I'm Neutral but could easily switch to an Evil alignment, especially they way I've been playing him, b) my DM isn't a big fan of alignments anyway, so as long as I'm in character and it makes sense he'll probably allow the class. In 2 levels I can have all the required skills I need for the class and so take it by 6th level. Question, does Assassin mix well with the Bard class and why or why not?

Duelist is an eventual a possibility, though it will take longer and I'd likely have to go with several levels of Fighter first, to get there as fast as possible. If not, it will take an extra level or two. It might be kind of silly, though, since I have a bad strength. I was planning to take Weapon Finesse next level, anyway, so working towards this is already sort of in the works if I want it to be.

What classes/prestige classes do you guys recommend? His stats are as follows:

STR: 9 (will be 10 at 4th lvl), DEX: 16, CON: 11, INT: 12, WIS: 13, CHA: 16

I unfortunately didn't plan on multi-classing from the beginning so my abilities/feats/skills don't always match up well for doing this sort of thing. There are a few skills that haven't come into play yet, so my DM might be nice and let me adjust stuff towards this end, we'll see. Since I haven't used them in the past, the fact that I change them won't affect what has gone before in the campaign is my thinking (I let him do this when I ran a game a few years back...he owes me ).

The Bard itself tens to feel ineffective (in combat), except in the situations where he can use the magical item that proves a life safer. But Inspire Courage and Inspire Heroics/Greatness are extreme useful abilities. If you have two or more weapon-based combatants (anyone not using spells for his attacks), the Bard totally pays off, because these two will greatly benefit from it.
Any kind of multiclassing will hurt this greatly. If you don't like feeling like a buffer, multiclass, but if you're fine with it, stay Bard. I guess multiclassing is a more attractive option once you grant a +2 bonus with Inspire Courage. If you multiclass, Extra Music is a sound choice (unintended pun).

The typical armor class of Bards makes them better as archers, away from the front line, then as melee fighters. (And Archers get a lot from Inspire Courage, because they can make full attacks a lot more often and it helps the limited damage output and the weaker successive attacks)

Use Magic Device is a very potent skill. You should probably avoid acquiring offensive spells on scrolls or wands, but defensive spells and buffs are very useful. You can try to use magical items that nobody else can use, or simply hasn't the time do so. If the Cleric falls, you might be the only one that can use the Scroll of Raise Dead or Reincarnate (the latter is cheaper, but your Cleric might not like the result) to get him back.

 

[Firebeetle]

I will also make a point against multiclassing.

The Bard pretty much already is a multiclass, as you get a bit of everything. You get 2 good saves, mid range spells, medium BAB, a lot of skills, etc etc.

Why are you looking to multiclass out of Bard? If your worried about the combat aspect, you will likely hurt yourself even more in combat by multiclassing out of bard. Instead, there are feats in complete adventurer especially that can help you use your music to do some combat buffs. Also, feats like arcane strike can allow you to convert spell energy into melee attack and damage.

I've been a bard player since 3.0 started, and I've always borrowed a couple of levels from another class. The purpose is to get something that's actually useful.

In your case, I would go rogue to get sneak attack. Spend some skill points in Intimidate while you're at it.

Other builds I like:

human fighter/bard w/ high strength. Use a whip and go into imp trip and imp disarm.
1/2 ling rogue/bard with throwing knives, feint, and sneak attack
gnome bard/sorcerer, a constant stream of low-level spells. Not combat efficient, but lots of fun
I am about to experiment with a 3rd level bard/6th level paladin. On paper, this guy looks good. We'll see if ti works in practice during "Expedition to the Demonweb Pits"

 

[Twowolves]

I'd bump Con (to 12) long before I'd bother with Str. Either that or keep pumping Chr or Dex.

A 1 level dip in Sorcerer would let you use all of the wands/scrolls on their spell list without using UMD, and you'd get a few Magic Missiles (or Mage Armors) to help out per day. In an urban game where armor is frowned upon in the city, Mage Armor is useful.

Or, you could do the same for Favored Soul (Complete Divine), and spontaneously cast divine spells for the same benefit.

If you really really wanted to, a 1 level dip in fighter would get you all the martial weapons, armor and 1d10 hp, +1 BAB, +2 Fort save and a bonus feat (like Point Blank Shot). That'll kick you a lot farther down the archer path.

All of these help diversify your bard and keep you with stuff to do when the bard song runs out.

 

[Darklone]

Too bad your stats aren't that great for an archerbard... more strength wouldn't hurt. But with PBS and RS plus Inspire Courage (think about at least one level warblade or crusader, it won't hurt your Insp Cour progression and that swift action singing is great) all you need is Song of the White Raven and boots of speed and you can fire three arrows per round for some good damage. Don't waste a feat too soon for Precise Shot, your bard song will take care of hitting.

There's that songbow in the MIC... that allows you to get your Cha bonus as a move action on to hit and damage... not too great if you ask me, I'd rather use a full attack action. You might want to go for 6 warblade levels and pick up Ranged Weapon Mastery later. First thing you need though: A magic bow. Get an energy +1d6 bonus damage asap and then pick up boots of speed.

Edit Oih: Bow of songs, MIC 48. It's a swift action now for a cheap +CHA to hit and damage. Get it later if you can afford it.

 

[Jhulae]

Instead of trying to multiclass, why not look at different feats?

One issue bards have is that they normally can't sing and cast, and therefore the music runs out quickly.

Look at the feat Melodic Casting (or something like that) from Complete Mage. It allows a bard to continue providing Bardic Music while casting spells or activating magic items. It also allows you to use your Perform in place of Concentration to avoid AoOs for spellcasting and the like.

It'll really stretch the bardic music out for the combat since you won't have to stop singing to cast.

 

[nittanytbone]

you could always splash a little bit of warlock in there - there's always something for those guys to do !

That is not a great idea, IMHO, unless it is a one level dip for Beguiling Influence on your way to making a Diplomancer. Although Complete Mage does have a bit more support for dual-caster threats involving Warlocks...

 

[Thurbane]

Don't forget wands! Between the PHB and Spell Compendium, Bards have some really good spells. Load up on wands of the more useful spells.

And as someone said earlier, pump up your UMD score, and you can used wands of any class quite effectively.

 

[Brudewollen]

I'm pretty sure this is a fairly low magic world, but it's hard to tell so far to be honest. It's the first time this person has ever DM'd so I don't know his style (and maybe he doesn't either). He's a very experienced player trying his hand at DMing (he's quite good, actually). He's using the Pholus setting as a double for the big Imperial Capital city of his homebrew world we are currently adventuring in, if that tells you guys anything. Though how close he is hewing to the setting, I don't know. He might be doing on the fly adjustments to its magic level - I really can't say because I've never once cracked the Pholus books, myself.

I might have to go out and get some of the newer supplement books out there and see what's what. I know this DM is a big fan of the Mongoose supplements too, so I'd probably be allowed various prestige classes from their Quintessential Bard books. If anyone knows stuff from those, that might be useful too.