Bashing bags of hitpoints

[Lanefan]

Having played at least that many editions, my preference is for the mathematical regularity of 4E. A high-level PC should face minimal threat from a low-level monster, and vice versa.

Where I don't mind a system that allows low-level monsters to be a threat longer into the campaign, and on the flip side might allow some lucky PCs to bring down something well outside their normal pay grade on the odd occasion. 3e was about the opposite of this.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Do you really believe this, or are you intentionally being hyperbolic?

Actually, I was just being tautological. If someone says that Bounded Accuracy is a good design goal, then what they're really saying is that it's a good design goal, and by repeating this I have added nothing to the conversation.

Have you played 5e? A giant falls in 2-3 rounds (if it is lucky). If anything I think 5e monsters need more hit points. The haven't inflated HP enough!

An entire party focusing on one frost giant can probably drop it in 2-3 rounds, if they're level 8 or so, but that's upwards of a dozen successful hits from the fighter and ranger and so on. Each arrow or sword that successfully lands against that giant does less than 10% of its total HP in damage. That's what I mean by saying they have too many HP. (And monsters very rarely appear alone, so multiply that by the number of monsters in the encounter to see how many successful attacks the party will have to make before they win.)

I was being hyperbolic about the hundreds of hits, though. Really, it's bad enough that you have to stab an ogre a dozen times for ~5 at a go, and packs of Thugs are just the worst!

 

[Ancalagon]

Earlier in the adventure the party were facing duergars who had better AC (16-18 range) and less HP (25-30 each). I think the players liked it better because there was a sense of *progress* - they went down - and also that each hit meant something - a 30 HP foe can't take a lot of hits.

 

[dave2008]

An entire party focusing on one frost giant can probably drop it in 2-3 rounds, if they're level 8 or so, but that's upwards of a dozen successful hits from the fighter and ranger and so on. Each arrow or sword that successfully lands against that giant does less than 10% of its total HP in damage.

Yes, that seems right to me. A giant is, well, Huge. It has at least 27x the mass of a human. It should take at least 10 hits to bring it down, probably more!

Edit: Just checked the math and it looks like a group of 3 lvl 5 PCs can take a giant down in two rounds (https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/3erj4d/comparing_the_damage_output_of_level_5_characters/ ). Yep, they need more hit points

 

[Maxperson]

On the subject of bounded accuracy. I think that the bounded to too much. I agree with WotC that the numbers in 3e and 4e inflated too much, but I think dropping the character arc from 20 to 5 was an overreaction that bounds things too greatly. If they had dropped to an arc of 10 I would have been much happier.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

... and packs of Thugs are just the worst!

Yes they are. But bandids are ok. Make sure there is only one thug against your party.
Some numbers are a bit off. Kuo toa monitors and death hounds are also terrible sacks of hp. But the fight against a giant was epic.
In my opinion the damage increase per level is not steep enough though. As suggested 1 attack bonus per 3 levels levels would have been better in my opinion but what would have been even more important would be extra damage per hit. Maybe give a flat +1 damage on level 3, 7, 11, 15 and 19 that would also help the fighter keep up in damage easily. That's 20 more damage per round at level 20. And even before that your hits just count a bit more. If you add that damage to TWF too it might become a worthwhile option.

 

[Wiseblood]

Yes, that seems right to me. A giant is, well, Huge. It has at least 27x the mass of a human. It should take at least 10 hits to bring it down, probably more!

Edit: Just checked the math and it looks like a group of 3 lvl 5 PCs can take a giant down in two rounds (https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/3erj4d/comparing_the_damage_output_of_level_5_characters/ ). Yep, they need more hit points

Only if they are regarded as a solo monster. If you took the same number of hit points and created a band of regular goblins that you sent after the party they would probably end up in the stew pot.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Only if they are regarded as a solo monster. If you took the same number of hit points and created a band of regular goblins that you sent after the party they would probably end up in the stew pot.

If they don't use fireball.

 

[Wiseblood]

If they don't use fireball.

Pehaps even if they do. Lots of potential for ambushes, flanking and focus fire. I strugle to remember the last time a fireball took out more than 5 enemies.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Pehaps even if they do. Lots of potential for ambushes, flanking and focus fire. I strugle to remember the last time a fireball took out more than 5 enemies.

Yeah. Those buggers can be quite dangerous.