Bashing bags of hitpoints

[Ancalagon]

So

I'm running the module "Gates of Firestorm Peak" which is converted from 2nd ed. Some of the monsters are converted in 5e already (gibbering mouther, trolls) and some are not (but thankfully, I found a decent 3rd party conversion on DMs guild). The thing I've noted while converting from 2nd ed is that there is a significant HP inflation in 5e, while the ACs tend to be worse -in some case much worse.

The party, in the damage dealing department, consists of a warlock (EB wih the Cha damage boost, Hex), a monk (order of the fist, spear +1), a cleric (knowledge) and a paladin (oath of the ancient, shield and board, viscious tulwar (a one handed only D8 weapon), all level 6. So there is not greater weapon twink build, but they can dish it out.

... and well, they feel like they are wailing on giant bag of hitpoints. They are almost always hitting, but the 5e versions of monsters have so much HP that it feels like it's taking forever. The paladin player loses patience, novaes with smithing, then he can't keep going because he's out of juice etc etc.

This was particularly noticeable in a fight vs 3 gibbering mouthers (AC 9, HP 67) and a living wall (HP 207 (!) AC 12). The living wall at least was interesting because it could cast spells at them. The gibbering mouther fight was just a chore.

Has anyone else noted this?

 

[MNblockhead]

Yes, which is why I try to stick to foes with more complex powers or environs where the big bag of hit points can get around and create more interesting challenges.

 

[Raith5]

Yes. I still think dragons are great opponents in 5th edition but yeah I find some of the monsters to be quite bland compared to previous editions. I also find 5e leans very heavily on hp for player progression as well. Both of these demonstrate the importance of story and having other stakes/goals in combat (save the captives, stop an escaping bad guy, etc) in 5e.

 

[Jacob Lewis]

From the title, I didn't know whether to expect a statblock for a portable variant of a mimic-like creature, or a magical satchel used in combat and giving a new meaning to the term "HIT" points.

 

[iserith]

Are they focusing fire? Seems like they could grind down some gibbering mouthers pretty quickly unless the gibbering or blinding was particularly debilitating to the party. I don't know the stats on a living wall, so I can't offer up much in that department. 207 hp does seem like a lot at that level. What book is that from? Is it a puzzle monster of some kind where you can figure out better or faster ways to defeat it?

I haven't otherwise noticed much in the way of grindy fights in D&D 5e and I tend to build some pretty complex combat challenges which can last a while. I quite like gibbering mouthers myself. I have them in two of my one-shots.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Perhaps it has to do with the conversions you're using? 200+ hp seems rather high for a CR 6 creature. Additionally, Gibbering Mouthers have a lot of control (blindness, difficult terrain, gibbering), so depending on how the fight goes it may get dragged out.

In general, I find that fights in 5e go fairly quickly. But if the characters are sub par on damage for some reason, you could give them a boost. For example, a flame tongue weapon would speed up most fights.

 

[Dausuul]

Something seems off. If the PCs have 18 in their attack stats, the warlock should average 19 damage if all attacks hit; the paladin, 21; the monk, 24.5. That's just using at-will attacks. (Don't know what the cleric is using, but I'll assume Sacred Flame, so that's another 9.) That's 73.5 damage, minus whatever percent of attacks miss. It shouldn't take that long to burn through 200ish enemy hit points if they're hitting well. Four rounds maybe. If they use any limited resources, like Hex, it'll be even less.

Are they getting debuffed a lot? Failing to use their abilities to the full extent (e.g., monk forgetting the bonus action unarmed attack)? Did they make a lot of defensive picks, like the paladin taking Protection instead of Duelist? Or are they just slow to take their turns, so four rounds seems to drag?

In any case, the standard cure for slow combat is to crank up monster damage and cut down their hit points by a like percentage.

 

[Nevvur]

Meatbag fights are easier to plan and predict, and I like them as a DM for that reason. I don't use them exclusively, but I cetainly use them.

In my experience, it's not their lack of features or the number of rounds that makes them boring, it's the pacing of the rounds. On general principle, I expect my players to be planning their combat actions in advance of their actual turns. I make allowances for particularly difficult and intricate fights, and when circumstances suddenly change, and when.... Okay, I want players to do that, but it doesn't always happen, and it is particularly noticeable when players labor over their decisions on relatively straight forward fights. IMO, this is what makes a meatbag fight feel like a chore.

On the other hand, when every turn is being resolved in under 15 seconds including a nice little narrative flourish, meatbag fights are fast and exciting.

 

[Riley37]

when players labor over their decisions on relatively straight forward fights. IMO, this is what makes a meatbag fight feel like a chore.

How long do you give players to decide on the character's 6-second action, and to what extend do you allow out-of-character conversations during that decision time?

 

[Sunseeker]

At this point, I generally take queues from video games for my "boss fights". Bosses always have something to do. They have a suite of 3-5 abilities they'll dole out at certain times against certain players (the fun ones are always abilities that knock players away when too many are close, and draw them in when too many are far away). And bosses will almost always change up what they're doing at 1/2 or 1/4th HP.