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D&D 5E Basic already surprising us.

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I just disagree that fighters shouldn't get some of the mythic love as they go up in level.

Not in Basic. I don't even know why thread like these are created since the DMG with the options hasn't even been released. It's harder to replace a "mythic power" in the Core Rules than to tack it on as a module to suit your playstyle. Core shouldn't be Wuxia, that, IMO, was 4e biggest error, it seemed to force one certain playstyle.
 
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The problem isn't that the fighter is so ineffective outside combat, its that the rogue and wizard ARE so effective on a consistent basis IN combat.

I don't agree with this, because it would be easy to have stuff that made the Fighter badass out of combat, but it would require new things, or going back to old stuff, like how a lot of magic items in 1/2E could ONLY be used by Fighters.

I mean, bring that forwards - make it so Gauntlets of Ogre Power, Belt of Giant Strength, they REQUIRE Fighter - maybe Vorpal Sword is just a sword +3 for anyone BUT a Fighter. Boots of Leaping only function at 50% power for non-Fighters. etc.

Maybe get some other less-advantaged classes in on that action.

Apply Remarkable Athlete to ALL Fighter subclasses, make it count as FULL Proficiency bonus (and count as trained Athletics).

Give the Fighter "Eye of the breaker" or something, where he can size a door or object up, determine it's weak point, and get advantage to hit AND to damage it, and so on.

This stuff could really add up to a decent non-combat presence WITHOUT making him "not a Fighter" (Battle Master does have one interestingly bizarre ability where he can stare at someone and know if they have higher or lower stats than him in various areas, that's another good one).

EDIT - We could have "magic item proficiency" - with different classes proficient with different items.

All of this because years of videogame conditioning has led to the expectation that all characters have to kick equal amounts of butt in a fight and the game revolves around a series of fights. It isn't rocket science. If the game is about monster fighting then all classes have to do it well which leaves fighters as last picked for the soccer team. Its the bed WOTC made when they decided killing things was the focus of the game.

Let's not pretend the elves created the gods, here. D&D came up with and perpetuated the idea that adventures should "revolve around a series of fights", particularly in later 1E and onwards (earlier versions of D&D still had a lot of fighting focus, though), whilst other RPGs moved away from that, increasingly. D&D inspired these video games, and it's just as responsible here.

As noted, what leaves them picked last (which they aren't but I concur with the underlying point) is that WotC are horribly unimaginative (in 3E, 4E, and 5E) when it comes to Fighter non-combat stuff, even though we can perfectly well come up with it (and to be fair every edition they do come up with at least one clever thing which they later forget).

It would be easy to divert, and I imagine we'll see a Fighter sub-class two, three years from now that does (but probably does something cretinous like lose it's extra attacks...).
 

A Long Rest of 8 hours can have up to 1 hour of interruptions and still be valid.


"If the rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity—at least 1 hour of walking, fighting, casting spells, or similar adventuring activity—"


In my interpretation, it's 1 hour of walking... OR any fighting, OR any casting, OR anything similar.
Not 1 hour of continuous interruption, whichever they are.
 

"If the rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity—at least 1 hour of walking, fighting, casting spells, or similar adventuring activity—"


In my interpretation, it's 1 hour of walking... OR any fighting, OR any casting, OR anything similar.
Not 1 hour of continuous interruption, whichever they are.

I'm still searching for the quote, but Mike Mearls mentioned on twitter that it is intended to be an hour of fighting. Your interpretation is certainly a valid one.

EDIT: Here is the exchange:

@mikemearls "at least 1 hour of walking, fighting, ..." Long Rest interrupted by any combat or only combat that lasts more than an hour?

mearls said:
Must last 1+ hours to break it

Thaumaturge.
 

I can see why. It's very difficult to balance an imbalanced game (folks tried for decades with D&D and didn't get it remotely right until the re-designed it from the ground up)

I doubt they went the route of 4e for design - I'm pretty sure they went the imbalance route first and then balanced it with nips/tucks to spells and adding class features wherever they thought was necessary. But the fact that you have the "balance brigade" crying for the inclusion of mythic power suggests, at least for now, they went with imbalance first for BASIC.

That said, I could see how a designer might cleverly design a balanced system, then slice away portions of it to create an imbalanced-to-order 'Basic' system, only to 'add' back the excised bits later. Nothing in the structure of 5e that I've seen in the playtest or Basic suggests that, but I could see how it might theoretically be done.

If portions of the class were sliced away, you wouldn't be able to see that. What we have seen is replacement features and optional features.
 


I doubt they went the route of 4e for design - I'm pretty sure they went the imbalance route first and then balanced it with nips/tucks to spells and adding class features wherever they thought was necessary.
It didn't have the hodge-podge structure that would result from that. Rather, it had a basic structure (AEDU, for instance) that facilitated balance, which is what you'd see in a game designed with balance in mind from the beginning.

I think what you're trying to say is that any game undergoing development is going to have it's balance fine-tuned and balance problems identified and fixed (or errata'd if it's already out). That's true, but it doesn't mean design an imbalanced game and balance it, it could just as easily be: design a balanced game, and refine that balance to make it better. Perfect balance being impossible, there's always room for improvement.

If portions of the class were sliced away, you wouldn't be able to see that. What we have seen is replacement features and optional features.
You'd see classes with a stunning lack of features, at a minimum. What we do see, is complete-looking sub-classes (that aren't too well balanced), and we're promised alternative sub-classes. So, /maybe/ they'll have a sub-class of fighter or wizard that's better-balanced, or not. Even if they do, though, the basic sub-classes remain imbalanced.
 
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I found the quote and added it to my previous post. My guess is they really didn't want long rests to be "accidently" disrupted by one roll on a random encounter chart.

Well damn, good find. I was right all along. I hate when people make me feel dumb when I'm obviously the smartest guy in the room. B-)
 

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