Batman: The Killing Joke -- crap

[Bold or Stupid]

I'll say Dark Knight as with others. Most of Chris Claremont's stuff has aged terribly. Watchmen is ngood imo but far from Alan Moore's best work, I prefer Promethea and Halo Jones(which is his best).

The single most over rated man in comics is Mark Millar, his only good work was Ultimates (which still has some terrible bits...) his worst is Wanted(the only GN adaption I thought was better than the GN and it was still poor). He just writes about nasty people doing nasty things.

 

[Krug]

Yeah I thought the comic Wanted was mediocre, with only one idea.

It's not a classic, but the first Dexter book was also bad. The TV series has been way, way better.

I also admit I enjoyed The Hobbit, but had a hard time reading Lord of the Rings.

 

[Graybeard]

I would have to vote for Dark Knight. I remember when it came out everyone was raving about how great it was. I took a look at it and thought the artwork was awful. I actually read it years later and was unimpressed with the story.

 

[megamania]

It's hard to compare books of the 80's to current stuff. In the 80's a lot of the "hard edge" stuff was ground breaking.

Watchmen
Dark Knight
and the others have become dated.

However, without them, today's "great" stuff may not have happened.


Something else Killing Joke did that has not been mentioned was the "senceless" attempted killing of barbara Gordon. The Joker knew her as Comm. Gordon's daughter, not as Bat Woman. His shooting and paralyzing of her was at the time shocking.

It was not the best stuff of the 80's. It was about the shock value.

 

[Mallus]

Inspired by this thread, I dug out my copy of The Killing Joke out of a battered old long box and reread it over two cups of strong coffee. Dovetailed nicely with (finally) finishing Batman: Arkham Asylum for the PS3 yesterday afternoon.

(it's also my wedding anniversary, so in a hour I will set aside nerdery in favor of a celebratory brunch at the local Four Seasons)

Anyway... I think The Killing Joke is a strong piece. Great art, a little baggy in the middle, where Moore can resist delivering a lecture from "Modernity and Nihilism 201", but still, deserving of it's reputation. I totally forgot it was TKJ was responsible for Barbara Gordon becoming Oracle, which features in the Batman video game.

TKJ is no Marvelman/Miracleman, or Watchman, but how many of those can one writer have in them? On the other hand, it's not The Black Dossier, either --which I loved, BTW-- TKJ has some powerful drama, it's not just clever-clever gamesmanship.

All I can think right now for a personal "worst" best comic is Grant Morrison's Invisibles. I liked the run, but it's not his best work. His prior run on Doom Patrol is much stronger, with scenes, panels, and lines that have stayed with me for the 20 years since I first read them (such as, "Pardon my writing. Robot fingers. You know...")

 

[Mallus]

Watchmen
Dark Knight
and the others have become dated.

However, without them, today's "great" stuff may not have happened.

What do you consider to be "today's great stuff"? I could use a few comic recommendations (and I'm curious... I can't think of any recent titles that beat Watchman or TDK... of course, that may simply mean I read those two at precisely the right time).

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Pretty much, yeah, The Dark Knight, Watchmen, and Chris Claremont's run on X-Men are all overrated.

I remember borrowing a friend's X-Men collection and, when done, asking her what was she smoking.

Brad

 

[Dyir]

From what I've read online, Alan Moore would agree with you. I've encountered quotes here and there where he regards Killing Joke as one of his worst pieces, and that he'd written it expecting DC to undo his crippling of Barbara almost immediately afterward.

Most recently for me was trying to read the Dark Phoenix Saga for the first time. While I've enjoyed the concept of the Phoenix, to actually read how it was first introduced and everything was...difficult.

 

[Welverin]

What do you consider to be "today's great stuff"? I could use a few comic recommendations (and I'm curious... I can't think of any recent titles that beat Watchman or TDK... of course, that may simply mean I read those two at precisely the right time).

I'll interject, three things by JMS: Midnight Nation, Rising Stars ,and Supreme Power/Squadron Supreme (unfortunately he didn't finish this).

I suppose Jeff Smith's Bone is a bit old to qualify for today (and has nary a super hero in it), but it's my favorite comic ever.

Last thing I'll mention is Ultimate Spider-man by Brian Bendis.

We've had a number of comic recommendation threads over the years you dig for for more stuff.

 

[megamania]

Rising Stars was going in the right direction. It fell apart in the end.

The MAX series Supreme Power again was going in the right direction but faltered in the end.

I have not read Powers but I intend to.

Civil War awakened thoughts and questioned morality in a way rarely seen

Identity Crisis by DC was very good and different though it borrowed from the 1980's Squadron Supreme a lot.