Battle vs. Frenzied Berserker

[Palskane]

Yes, they certainly lack battlefield control and utility spells.

I don't have the PHBII. Maybe something else I should try to remedy soon.

 

[Sejs]

Yes, they certainly lack battlefield control and utility spells.

I don't have the PHBII. Maybe something else I should try to remedy soon.

Against an opponent like an FB, battlefield control is kinda key. Plant Growth is a lovely one. Another option would be Tanglefoot Bags: even if they save, their movement is still reduced. Grease would be a beautiful option - you can't make any dex-based skill checks while frenzied, which would include balance - unlike rage, where you still can. But as has been mentioned, no grease available.

Given that the guy's strength makes hitting very easy, change things up. Sure he's so strong your AC is irrelevent, but no amount of strength helps negate concealment. Obscuring mist, blur, displacement, etc.

Calm Emotions ends rage. I could see where, by extension, it would end frenzy as well.
As has been stated: you're not just fighting the guy, you're also fighting his frenzy duration.


Spells that'd help, by category. PHB only atm~ Personal faves are bold.

Cleric: Obscuring Mist (1), Calm Emotions (2), Hold Person (2), the Dispel Magic (3)/Shatter (2) combo on his weapon, Bestow Curse (3) - the down side is you've got to get close, Deeper Darkness (3), Air Walk (4)

Druid: Entangle (1), Obscuring Mist (1), Fog Cloud (2), Plant Growth (3), Sleet Storm (3), Spike Growth (3), Air Walk (4), Dispel Magic (4)/Rusting Grasp (4) combo

Sorcerer/Wizard (depending on availability): Grease (1), Obscuring Mist (1), Ray of Enfeeblement (1), Fog Cloud (2), Web (2), Touch of Idiocy (2), Tasha's Hideous Laughter (2), Dispel Magic (3)/Shatter(2) combo, Darkness (2), Blur (2), Hypnotic Pattern (2), Blindness/Deafness (2) ... tough due to Fort neg but awesome if it works, Pyrotechnics (2) - will save blindness but only lasts a few rounds, Deep Slumber (3), Sleet Storm (3), Hold Person (3), Suggestion (3), Displacement (3), Ray of Exhaustion (3), Slow (3), Evard's Black Tentacles (4), Otiluke's Resilient Sphere (4), Confusion (4), Wall of Ice (4), Rainbow Pattern (4), Bestow Curse (4), Fear (4)

 

[airwalkrr]

Well, going from the general consensus it seems that maybe I should change this encounter. Since they have already run into her I suppose I could change her to straight barbarian...

Educating my players on their spell-lists will be forthcoming...

Best way to educate them would be to let them fight the FB.

 

[brendan candries]

Nonlethal damage thwarts Deathless Frenzy.

 

[starwed]

Nonlethal damage thwarts Deathless Frenzy.

While this might be true by the RAW, I think most DM's will rule otherwise. (Especially since that reading makes the ability completely and utterly worthless, since the berserker will always have at least a couple points of nonlethal damage from the frenzy itself.)

 

[brendan candries]

Aye, just realized that.

a frenzied berserker can scorn death and unconsciousness while in a frenzy. Then goes on describing being at 0, -1 to -9 and -10+ hitpoints.

It never actually says that they become immune for any affect that might make them unconscious like having more nonlethal damage than current HPs.

Most GM's would actually be rather stupid to rule otherwise. Plus, there are options in the game that make you immune to nonlethal damage (e.g spell Favor of Ilmater).

 

[NilesB]

With Deathless Frenzy, hit points (and AC) are essentially irrelevant... what matters is the duration of the Frenzy.

-Hyp.

Except that deathless frenzy doesn't prevent oyu from being knocked out if you fave taken more nonlethal damage than your current HP, and look being in a frenzy deal nonlethal damage to you.

Deathless Frenzy is a messed up, ill considered ability.

Edit: I should remember to read ahead before posting in case I'm just repeating someone else's points.

 

[the_mighty_agrippa]

Take out Deathless Frenzy and you've solved most of the problem. I houseruled it to mean that the FB can fight into negative HP by making a saving throw each round equal to the amount of negative HP at the start of his turn. So, if the FB has -12 HP, he has to make a DC12 Fort save. If he's -43, it's DC43. Much less dangerous but still brutal.

 

[the_mighty_agrippa]

The whole point of non-lethal damage is to cause unconsciousness. Deathless Frenzy prevents unconsciousness. It's like being poisoned to death with a Delay Poison spell up.

 

[Darklone]

They should have simply forgotten the deathless frenzy ability. Instead, the FB should have gotten some nice amount of temporary hitpoints, e.g. twice his level or 5 times his class level or something.