Battlemind: Anyone use Mind Spike?

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

The battlemind is a class found in the PH3. It is a psionic defender.

Mind Spike is one of three at-will powers all battleminds get. Unlike the other powers, this one worries me:

At·Will (Force. Psionic, Psychic)
Immediate Reaction Melee 1
Trigger: An adjacent enemy marked by you deals damage to your ally with an attack that doesn't include you as a target
Target: The triggering enemy
Effect: The target takes force and psychic damage equal to the damage that its attack dealt to your ally.

Compared to Combat Challenge, this is much more powerful, since it allows you to effectively counter an encounter or recharge power just as effectively as an at-will attack. Combat Challenge has approximately the same trigger, but lets a fighter make an at-will attack instead (and requires an attack roll).

 

[RangerWickett]

Mind Spike requires the other guy to hit your friend, so if they miss, you can't punish them for their insolence.

 

[Aegeri]

It also requires you to be adjacent and it's effectiveness vastly depends on what the attack is. A weak effect with strong control is basically making Mind Spike worthless. On the other hand a very powerful attack with a good amount of damage, like a brute, makes Mind Spike more worthwhile.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Yar, there's a few disadvantages. One is that your ally is already hurting when the Mind Spike comes into play: if your friend isn't hurt, neither is your enemy. The Fighter ability lets you slap down your foe regardless of if your foe hurts your friend.

A more subtle one is that its damage isn't related to your ability, but its own attack. If the enemy does little damage (or none), your enemy just got off easy. It's also typed damage (rather than weapon damage), and thus slightly more likely to be resisted.

The edge is that if you counter a big attack with it, it's quite mighty (it lets you deal really high damage for an at-will, though the damage is still limited in that your enemy can't break it out every round).

But is that worth the fact that you're "spending" your friend's HP (and your Leader's heals) to deal that damage?

A party relying on a Battlemind as their main Defender is going to look worse for wear than a party with a Fighter. It's sort of a choice between "Everyone hurts hard forever" and "Only the bad guy hurts, but not always quite as much."

Perhaps cleverly, it's swingier, and it kind of helps take the edge off of grind (more damage = faster combat).

 

[Lancelot]

From experience DM'ing a battlemind who used this frequently (at paragon levels), it was rarely a problem.

I found that the battlemind was a very poor defender compared to a fighter or warden. They had trouble locking down opponents, and it was all too easy for an enemy to shift or move away and whack the battlemind's allies while he wasn't adjacent.

I came to the conclusion rapidly that battlemind has a "minor degree" in Striker, to make up for the reduced capability as a Defender. They can achieve some impressive damage output. Our battlemind had a power (forget the name) which allowed 3 attacks (augmentable to 4 attacks). Each attack only did Stat damage (no [W]), but it get absolutely sick when other PCs used powers that granted vulnerability to targets, or increased static damage from attacks. The battlemind would swing for 100+ damage at 15th level on a regular round; twice that with an action point. Adding potential mind spike damage to the equation, they can put out some serious beats.

But, yeah, not a great defender compared to fighters, wardens, swordmages...

 

[Chzbro]

It's a small thing in most cases, but worth noting that the fighter's attack is an interrupt rather than a reaction. That means a fighter can conceivably kill an attacker before he deals damage to the fighter's ally.

In other words, it's not cut and dry that Mind Spike flat-out better than a fighter's option even if Mind Spike might do more damage on average.

 

[OnlineDM]

I've played in three campaigns with the same group of people this year. The first campaign had a Warden for its defender. The second had a Fighter. The third has a Battlemind.

I can say, without a doubt, that the Battlemind is by far the weakest defender I've seen in action. Through 12 encounters I believe I've seen Mind Spike come into play exactly once, and it wasn't anything special. I feel bad for the player running the Battlemind, but they say they're having fun with it, so we move on as-is. Strangely, the high-AC Monk in the party is doing as much defending as the Battlemind is.

 

[Mad Hamish]

It's a small thing in most cases, but worth noting that the fighter's attack is an interrupt rather than a reaction. That means a fighter can conceivably kill an attacker before he deals damage to the fighter's ally.

In other words, it's not cut and dry that Mind Spike flat-out better than a fighter's option even if Mind Spike might do more damage on average.

Also depending on the fighter's feats and powers they might be able to disrupt the attack in other ways.
Various items and feats allow pushing or sliding, knock the target prone etc.
(Heavy Blade Opportunist and Tide of Iron or various spear/polearm tricks spring to mind as methods to do so)

 

[chitzk0i]

My theory for battleminds is to deal so much damage that the monsters think you're another striker. That and Conductive Defense from Psionic Power. The mark punishment I've always wanted!