Battlerager....Overpowered?

[WalterKovacs]

Wisdom bonus applies to OAs, but not the challenge interupt attacks. That's important to keep in mind.

 

[Mengu]

Wisdom bonus applies to OAs, but not the challenge interupt attacks. That's important to keep in mind.

Unless you are a dwarf with Devoted Challenge

Another point I meant to mention earlier is Brash Strike gives back the +2 that you lose from choosing Battlerage Vigor over Weapon Talent, and from using a hammer/axe over sword.

 

[James McMurray]

In heroic, +1 to hit exchanged to +2 to damage is a pretty good deal for the battle-rager. In epic, it might be a poor exchange (the 1[W] auto-damage stances can swap it around to an advantage in some circumstances). The offensive gain/loss is, however, never significant.

Yeah. That 1 point of AC off a standard fighter build (2 if the other guy went for plate) is sooo important compared to shaving well over a third of the incoming damage off. Battle-ragers, even considering chain-v-plate, have absurdly more survivability than a weapon-talent-fighter.

So what you're saying is that you haven't played one?

 

[Bagpuss]

So what you're saying is that you haven't played one?

In a stand-up melee fight a Dwarven Battlerager with Dwavern Stoneblood, can pretty much ignore melee attacks at low level. I've not tested higher levels yet (but I suspect it isn't so much of a problem as CON mod does climb as fast as damage).

So much so he can use Brash Strike, meaning his attack chance is the same as a Weapon Talent fighter using anything other than Brash Strike, and his damage is more because his lower Strength is covered by his higher con mod, so he just gets the +2 for having temp hit points.

So he hits as often, does more damage and can effectively ignore the majority of melee attacks (that's from actual play testing).

I'm not entirely sure the whole concept is broken (needs more testing with some other builds), but the Dwavern Stoneblood feat should definitely be moved to Paragon or even Epic teir.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

In a stand-up melee fight a Dwarven Battlerager with Dwavern Stoneblood, can pretty much ignore melee attacks at low level. I've not tested higher levels yet (but I suspect it isn't so much of a problem as CON mod does climb as fast as damage).

So much so he can use Brash Strike, meaning his attack chance is the same as a Weapon Talent fighter using anything other than Brash Strike, and his damage is more because his lower Strength is covered by his higher con mod, so he just gets the +2 for having temp hit points.

So he hits as often, does more damage and can effectively ignore the majority of melee attacks (that's from actual play testing).

I'm not entirely sure the whole concept is broken (needs more testing with some other builds), but the Dwavern Stoneblood feat should definitely be moved to Paragon or even Epic teir.

After the limited experience I had so far and the details in this thread, I think at least all the feats that improve the hit poings gained are breaking the Battlerager. It doesn't matter which tier you hand them out.

Maybe a fix would be to make the Battlerager feat work only once per round. That's still pretty cool, and since you typically take only one attack per round, it also measures fine against the loss of the +1 bonus to attack.

 

[Bagpuss]

Maybe a fix would be to make the Battlerager feat work only once per round. That's still pretty cool, and since you typically take only one attack per round, it also measures fine against the loss of the +1 bonus to attack.

I agree once a round, especially when you consider they can gain additional ones through Invigorating powers, which probably should not stack.

 

[Stalker0]

especially when you consider they can gain additional ones through Invigorating powers, which probably should not stack.

I don't think they shoudl stack either. I think WOTC put that clause in so the two new things could work with each other, but overall I think its bad for balance.

If your a battlerager you don't take invigorating powers, its built in. A regular fighter could take those powers to be a bit more like a battlerager, but I don't think the two options should stack.

I also agree that dwarven stoneblood is really nasty at lower levels, its probably still too strong at higher levels. So far I'm noticing that while general feats have a very low power rating, the racial feats seem to be getting stronger and stronger.

 

[Minigiant]

I think the only real problem is the feat. The class feature only negates about a 1/3 of the enemies damage past level 5 or so. If the invigorating powers are any sort of balanced, they don't slow, immobilize, knock prone, stun, or push often. But from the paragon tier and up, enemies melee and close at-wills average damage is about equal to their level. So the feat would temporarily heal half the damage they cause from a melee at will againt an equal level dwarven battlerager.

 

[James McMurray]

In a stand-up melee fight a Dwarven Battlerager with Dwavern Stoneblood, can pretty much ignore melee attacks at low level. I've not tested higher levels yet (but I suspect it isn't so much of a problem as CON mod does climb as fast as damage).

So much so he can use Brash Strike, meaning his attack chance is the same as a Weapon Talent fighter using anything other than Brash Strike, and his damage is more because his lower Strength is covered by his higher con mod, so he just gets the +2 for having temp hit points.

So he hits as often, does more damage and can effectively ignore the majority of melee attacks (that's from actual play testing).

I'm not entirely sure the whole concept is broken (needs more testing with some other builds), but the Dwavern Stoneblood feat should definitely be moved to Paragon or even Epic teir.

Did the player get bored using the same power over and over, or frustrated at missing with daily and encounter powers more often?

 

[MadLordOfMilk]

Which has what relevance to the discussion as to whether or not the Battlerager is overpowered?

- Marty Lund

Balance at the top end is important, but it's also important in the mid-range.