Battlerager Vigor limiting it - ideas?

[keterys]

Fwiw, I have a BRV in a LFR campaign I'm running... and it's very common for enemies to just begin ignoring him. Last session I crit him for 29 and he took 4 damage, because he already has 25 temp from the previous combat... at which point he then acquired another 5 temp back.

The enemy blinked at him and dealt with other enemies for the rest of the combat, including leaving the fighter immobilized out of melee reach of anyone at one point because no one wanted to fight him.

 

[Garthanos]

This idea only guarantees that a Battlerager will take some damage from repeated attacks. If a Battlerager is being attacked by enemies who do more damage on a hit than his BRV temp HP, it doesn't limit the ability at all

If they are doing a bunch of damage all in one punch through his BRV then he is actually being hurt so the problem doesn't sound too much like a problem at that point?

And read the original expression of the rule I maxed the amount gained from brv based on the real hp loss taken (ignoring the feats) so if an attack is only 1 better than your current thp (you only get 1thp for next round)

Attack 4 damage vs brv 4
1 0 thp - tl 4 - thp 4
2 4 thp - tl 4 - thp 0
3 0 thp - tl 8 - thp 4
4 4 thp - tl 8 - thp 0

Attack 5 damage vs brv 4
1 0 thp - tl 5 - thp 4
2 4 thp - tl 6 - thp 1
3 1 thp - tl 10 - thp 4
4 4 thp - tl 11 - thp 1

an attack 5 is doing better.

Ahh I see your wierdness of 5 being less of a danger than 4 would occur
if I treat the feats the way I originally thought. It isnt an issue if they are just a part of the original thp gained is the minimum of brv rating or real hit point loss.

 

[keterys]

That definitely seems to address the more egregious low damage input vs. temp hp gained imbalances and is a notable nerf on the more extreme 20 Con / Stoneblood type builds while it's going... I'd just really worry about it being too complex for many players.

Change the way it stacks invigorating temp too, and I'd probably no longer find BRV offensive at least. Just something complex for certain players only, like Vestige pact.

 

[Garthanos]

Also, a BRV who gets 7 temp hp per whack attacked by things that do 8 (or 4) is still nigh invulnerable.

Because of how I actually expressed it first ;-) As the maximum gainable by battlerager vigor was the amount of real hit points lost! ... he doesnt get 7 temp hit points unless he loses 7 real hitpoints.

 

[Garthanos]

I'd just really worry about it being too complex for many players.

Well to be honest I find temporary hit points too complicated ;-), normal hitpoints should simply be allowed to go above your normal max until the end of the encounter.

Elrics idea of just implementing it as a (1 +Con/2) damage resistance IS indeed simpler as long as the BRV dont have to worry any more about archers than anyone else does ;-) I'd be game. The numbers for that work out rather similar with low end attacks but punishes you a lot more when taking high end damage as a fan of BRV I wouldnt like that much

I havent thought about somebody trying to keep thp between encounters... I assumed they ended when the DM decided the encounter did.

 

[keterys]

Because of how I actually expressed it first ;-)

Yeah, your version dealt with it - the idea of just making it only trigger when you take actual hp damage which I'd thought of myself weeks ago and seen in other places as well doesn't deal with it... otoh, is also a lot simpler. Meh.

I havent thought about somebody trying to keep thp between encounters...

I do. He got up to 35 temp one adventure... he was 1st level at the time and only had something like 35 hp max. I'm not sure he took damage that adventure and there's a decent chance he could have solo-ed the entire adventure (not a great chance, but decent... three creatures would have been more seriously threatening, and oh god would he have damaged things slowly)

 

[Garthanos]

Ket, about the thp stacking with, BRV hit points gain restricted by the real damage you take. Doesnt seem like it would be a drop in the bucket... ie those other thp insulate you from getting the brv thp so why would it still be a problem?

 

[Pyrex]

I do. He got up to 35 temp one adventure... he was 1st level at the time and only had something like 35 hp max.

How the devil is he getting up to 35 THP?

THP's from Invigorating powers stack, the THP's that Battlerager Vigor grants when you're hit don't stack.

The only way he should be getting up to double-digit THP's is if you're hitting him 1) less than once per round, and 2) hitting him for less than his Con modifier.

 

[Garthanos]

Yeah, your version dealt with it - the idea of just making it only trigger when you take actual hp damage which I'd thought of myself weeks ago and seen in other places as well doesn't deal with it... otoh, is also a lot simpler. Meh.

Well expressed as "Temporary hit point gain from any attack is limited to the maximum real hit point loss from the attack." is fairly easy to say..
But it does in practice mean noting the real hitpoint loss from an attack is less than your brv and using that as the thp you gain next round... Ignoring your battlerager vigor when you are just loosing temp hit points will become easy.
Regarding Roles and BRV.
It isnt a don't attack me defense until your adversary starts noticing you arent slowing down... which occurs with the regeneration fighter powers too and seems like a rather subtle defense compared to my attacks just bounce off his armor! which is the in your face normal defense of fighters I dont think I get the role argument. .. if he doesnt deliver enough damage so they think its ok to ignore the man who wont fall down, cause he isnt hurting us.. that is I think a build issue... not enough offense in the equation.

 

[Garthanos]

Yeah, your version dealt with it - the idea of just making it only trigger when you take actual hp damage which I'd thought of myself weeks ago and seen in other places as well doesn't deal with it... otoh, is also a lot simpler. Meh.

Well expressed as "Temporary hit point gain from any attack is limited to the maximum real hit point loss from the attack." is fairly easy to say..
But it does in practice mean noting the real hitpoint loss from an attack is less than your brv and using that as the thp you gain next round... Ignoring your battlerager vigor when you are just loosing temp hit points will become easy.
Regarding Roles and BRV.
It isnt a don't attack me defense until your adversary starts noticing you arent slowing down... which occurs with the regeneration fighter powers too and seems like a rather subtle defense compared to my attacks just bounce off his armor! which is the in your face normal defense of fighters I dont think I get the role argument. .. if he doesnt deliver enough damage so they think its ok to ignore the man who wont fall down, cause he isnt hurting us.. that is I think a build issue... not enough offense in the equation.