Bear Warrior

[sledged]

You've got a few things wrong yourself. First off, the benefits from Bear Warrior *replaces* the benefits form Rage or Frenzy (IMO, the BW's choice). Thus, the +4 from Barbarian(1) is no longer in effect.

Yes, I know this. In case you missed it, I mentioned this at the end of my post along with the quote from the CW. My calculations were based on fact that I was trying to figure out specifically how Oscar came up with a Str 108, so I stacked them in order to follow his logic.

Further, an ECL 25 Half-dragon Minotaur has a Level Adjustment of +6, so this character has 19 hit dice.

My 3.5 MM says LA +3 for half-dragon and LA +2 for cursed man-cow. I think one of the LAs changed from 3.0. Not only that but if the total LA had been +6, the ECL wouldn't have added up to 25, because a minotaur has six racial HD, and Oscar listed fourteen class levels (6 HD + 14 class levels + 6 LA = 26 ECL).

Thus, while the +4 from level is a correct total, those modifiers are for 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16thlevels - not 8th to 20th as you state (sorry to nitpick, but it means the character is only ONE level/HD form another attribute increase).

"Feat Acquisition and Ability Score Increases: A monster's total Hit Dice, not its ECL, govern its acquistion of feats and ability score increases. For example, 1st level minotaur barbarian has a total of 7 HD. It has three feats (for its 1st, 3rd and 6th HD). When it gains 2nd level as a barbarian, it becomes a creature of 8 Hit Dice and improves one ability score by 1 point. When it adds its 3rd level of barbarian, the minotaur becomes a creature of 9 Hit Dice and gains its fourth feat."

- MM 3.5, pg 291, first column, second paragraph
​

When I said "levels 8, 12, 16, and 20" I meant "Hit Dice 8, 12, 16, and 20." Sorry for any confusion. In class levels it would not be 4, 8, 12, and 16, but instead 2, 6, 10, and 14.

^_^ Sadly, the Belt of Giant strength is useless - the Bear Warrior benefit is an enhancement bonus, and so is the Belt ... thus, they don't stack.

I'll quote ruleslawyer on this one.

Was this in errata? Because the Complete Warrior that I have lists the bear warrior bonuses without names; that, AFAIK, means that they are unnamed bonuses.

To add to this, the bonuses granted by frenzied berzerker, barbarian, and berzerk (page 201 in Deities and Demigods for those reading this and wondering "berzerk?") are all unnamed bonuses (boni?), as well.

So, based on that, I get [ 18/base +4/level +5/inherent +16/enhancement +6/frenzy +4/morphic +2/size +8/half-drgaon +8/minotaur = ] 71 in total.

I get 83 if you removed the barbarian's Str bonus, 81 if you remove the frenzied berzerker's or berzerk's (if the berzerk's even qualifies for replacement) Str bonus.

Which leaves no less than thirty-eight...

twenty-five or twenty seven.

...points unaccounted for.

As for Constitution, I also note similar errors in Sledge's accounting (mainly bonus-stacking issues); I come up with a 47 total (the belt and bear warrior enhancements don't stack, and the bear warrior benefits still *replace*, not stack with, those of Rage).

Refer to the previous statements. I get 53 if you remove the barbarian's Con bonus.

... +8 (size) ...

Does animal growth work on dragons? Assuming of course, you're using animal growth. Now that I've though about it, enlarge person won't work either (that's where I got +2 size). It's no longer a humanoid (actually it never was one to begin with).

rune animalgrowth casterlevel 20 5000

see previous. There's more, but I have yet to look everything up.

 

[sledged]

Couldn't you get even more strength as a DireBoar lycanthrope?

And a half-fiend, and a half-troll, and a half-elemental, and a vampire, and...

ad infinitum.

This is why I when I min/max, I try to use only creatures with only one racial HD and no LA.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Does animal growth work on dragons? Assuming of course, you're using animal growth. Now that I've though about it, enlarge person won't work either (that's where I got +2 size). It's no longer a humanoid (actually it never was one to begin with).

That's why I went neither with enlarge person nor animal growth, but with righteous might (see the post above), which is the effect responsible for the +8 size bonus. I mention enlarge person as an "if," in case Oscar's DM uses weird house rules about the spell; it's why it didn't make it into my core calculations. (An interesting question that I hadn't considered is whether the size bonuses from righteous might and animal growth stack; by the rules, they shouldn't, since they're like-named bonuses, but if there are two size increases going on here, one could argue that they do stack.)

BTW, Pax: If this creature had only 19 HD, it would NOT get +4 level-based ability increases; I should have pointed that out in my last post. According to Savage Species, monsters do not gain level increases for their base HD.

Incidentally, what Oscar (in a supremely trollish gesture, IMHO) uses to fill in the missing Strength, appears to be a hand-waving +20(!) "psionic" bonus! Do explain where that one comes from, eh?

 

[Zithuan]

Incidentally, what Oscar (in a supremely trollish gesture, IMHO) uses to fill in the missing Strength, appears to be a hand-waving +20(!) "psionic" bonus! Do explain where that one comes from, eh?

Psychofeedback
Psychometabolism
Level: Egoist 5, psychic warrior 5
Display: Visual
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Power Points: 9
You can readjust your body to boost one physical ability score at the expense of one or more other scores. Select one ability score you would like to boost, and increase it by the same amount that you decrease one or more other scores. All score decreases are treated as a special form of ability damage, called ability burn, which cannot be magically or psionically healed—it goes away only through natural healing.
You can boost your Strength, Dexterity or Constitution score by an amount equal to your manifester level (or any lesser amount), assuming you can afford to burn your other ability scores to such an extent.
When the duration of this power expires, your ability boost also ends, but your ability burn remains until it is healed naturally.

It doesn't say what sort of bonus is granted by Psychofeedback, but I'd be inclined to house rule it as an enhancement bonus.

 

[sledged]

So how does it become a rune?

Edit:

That's why I went neither with enlarge person nor animal growth, but with righteous might (see the post above), which is the effect responsible for the +8 size bonus. I mention enlarge person as an "if," in case Oscar's DM uses weird house rules about the spell; it's why it didn't make it into my core calculations.

Ok, gotcha!

(An interesting question that I hadn't considered is whether the size bonuses from righteous might and animal growth stack; by the rules, they shouldn't, since they're like-named bonuses, but if there are two size increases going on here, one could argue that they do stack.)

No, they don't. All three spells have this line:

"Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack..."

BTW, Pax: If this creature had only 19 HD, it would NOT get +4 level-based ability increases; I should have pointed that out in my last post. According to Savage Species, monsters do not gain level increases for their base HD.

I knew that rule was somewhere, but I couldn't remember where. It should be in the 3.5 DMG where it talks about monstrous races and advancement, but I couldn't find it.

 

[Oscar carramiñana]

I always think what enlarge doesn't work on large creatures.

The animal growth only works on animal creatures I think.

The psychofeedback are a broken and unbalancing power what grants you unnamed bonus on one stat at high cost, after you need a greater restoration.

The minotaur are a 6dice creature with +2 LA adding the template would become a 6dice creature with +5 LA, more the 14 class levels you have a total 25 class level PC

the righteous might, expansion power, animal growth doesn't work togeher. all of them grants size bonus choose one. the better are righteous might of course.

I Don't like to play with this PC, only was a demonstration of what I can do with all resources
The real Pc for an epic 25party will be a half ogre 24 Fighter.

The runes are the best thing to buff a melee type.
The Druid have one of the best buff spells nature favor and nature avatar.

 

[sledged]

... only was a demonstration of what I can do with all resources

Bad demonstration.

 

[Pax]

My 3.5 MM says LA +3 for half-dragon and LA +2 for cursed man-cow.

My bad, I misread (juggling two kittens, typing, AND trying to look up the LA).

When I said "levels 8, 12, 16, and 20" I meant "Hit Dice 8, 12, 16, and 20." Sorry for any confusion. In class levels it would not be 4, 8, 12, and 16, but instead 2, 6, 10, and 14.

Then that would, with 20 total hit dice, still be a +1 to attributes at each of HD 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20. ^_^

I'll quote ruleslawyer on this one.
To add to this, the bonuses granted by frenzied berzerker, barbarian, and berzerk (page 201 in Deities and Demigods for those reading this and wondering "berzerk?") are all unnamed bonuses (boni?), as well.

Hmm, I was apparently remembering a house rule instead of hte official.

Does animal growth work on dragons?

No, it does not. The target's Type must be "animal".

Assuming of course, you're using animal growth. Now that I've though about it, enlarge person won't work either (that's where I got +2 size). It's no longer a humanoid (actually it never was one to begin with).

Righteous Might would work though.

stats
S18 race+8 temp+8 LevelA+2 +5inh +6item +Anim gro+8 +16 BW +6 FB +6 B +20 psi total103 +46bonus
D18 +6item Anim gro-2 total22
C18 race+4 temp+2+5inh+6item +Anim gro4 +8 BW +6 B +20 psi total=73 +31bonus
I12 race-4 temp+2+6item -15psi total 1
w12 +6item -8psi total 10
c12 race-2 temp+2+6item-17 psi total1

"Temp" means what? I assume "template" ...

"LevelA" means what? I assume "attribute bonus due to levels" - in which case, oddly, you've shortchanged yourself.

"Psi" means what? I notice +40 in benefits, and -35 in penalties. Most curious.

Animal Growth is an illegal spell for this character, you are "Type: Dragon (Augmented mosntrous Humanoid)", not "Type: Animal". Thus the spell cannot target this character, and it cannot benefit (nor suffer) from the spell's effects.

Note as well, this is a Strength of 103, not 108.

hit points: 82 average+465 Con bonus+80 nat avatar=627

Again, due to your Type, you are not a legal target for the "Nature's Avatar" spell.

belt+6 to all stats 200000

No such item exists in the core rules.

amulet mighty fists+5 200000
+5 books to St & Con 275000
rune of psychofeeback 2 charges caster level20 10000gps

Runes may not hold Psionic powers, only Divine spells.

rune animalgrowth casterlevel 20 5000

Useless to you, for reasons described above.

rune nature favor caster lvl 20 3000

Useless to you, for reasons described above.

rune nature avatar casterlvl20 9000

Useless to you, for reasons described above.

Attack 15 base +46 ST +5 amulet +10 nat avat +10 nat fav -3size -15 PA total +68
grapple 15 base +46 ST +5 amulet +10 nat avat +10 nat fav +8size -15 PA total +79
+68 with2+1 haste claws damage 2d6+48ST +10 nat fav +10 nat avat + 15PA = 77+2d6 *3=249 average
+63 with +65 with bite damage 2d8+24ST +10 nat fav +10 nat avat+15 PA =59+2d8 67 average
+63 gore damage 2d6 +24ST +10 nat fav +10 nat avat+15 PA =59+2d6 65 average

You gain no benefit from Nature's Avatar nor from Nature's Favor. Your Type is incorrect per those spell's Target entries.

This pc is only 20lvl at 25 lvl the st upgrades 6 points more for an epic item 2 points more from level advancement for a total of 111ST.

Evne the DMG strongly discourages allowing people to spend most of their startign funds on a single item - so a 25th level character most assuredly won't have an Epic Belt of Strength +12 in any rules-as-written campaign. The Exodus, for example, allows only ONE item of up to 40% of your starting money, FOUR other items of up to 20%, and everything else must be 10% or less. (Yes, that adds up to more than 100% - you won't pull off the maximum on ALL items, obviously speaking).

 

[sledged]

Then that would, with 20 total hit dice, still be a +1 to attributes at each of HD 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20. ^_^

Again, I'll quote ruleslawyer on this one:

According to Savage Species, monsters do not gain level increases for their base HD.

I remember seeing that rule somewhere else, too, but I'll be damned if I can find it right now. Anyway, it doesn't get one for 4 HD, because it has 6 base HD, so the adjustments still stand at 8, 12, 16, and 20 HD.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Animal Growth is an illegal spell for this character, you are "Type: Dragon (Augmented mosntrous Humanoid)", not "Type: Animal". Thus the spell cannot target this character, and it cannot benefit (nor suffer) from the spell's effects.

Unfortunately, not quite correct, Pax. From Complete Warrior:

Bear Form (Su): A bear warrior can transform into a bear (similar to the polymorphspell) while in a rage or frenzy.

From the SRD:

Polymorph


[SNIP]

The subject’s creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form.

So, while under the effects of the bear form ability, the BW can indeed be considered an animal, and thus can benefit from animal growth. It's possible that type change is an effect of polymorph that doesn't carry over to the bear form ability, but a reasonable construction would in fact be that except for the ability score changes (increases instead of resets), the ability does work like polymorph, up to and including the type change.

I remember seeing that rule somewhere else, too, but I'll be damned if I can find it right now.

From the 3.5 Monster Manual, in the section titled "Ability Score arrays":

Ability Score Improvement: Treat monster Hit Dice the same as character level for determining ability score increases. This only applies to Hit Dice increases, monsters do not gain ability score increases for levels they “already reached” with their racial Hit Dice, since these adjustments are included in their basic ability scores.