Bear's Endurance vs Level Drain

[Scion]

Even if the characters dont know when exactly it will happen all of the saves will happen around the same time probably, so once the first starts to happen everyone casts the protective spells on the character quickly.

The first will be without too much help, but all of the rest should get whatever benefits they can apply to the character. But most characters whoe are facing level drain should have some form of way to get rid of them available somehow, it is just too big of a loss not to invest some time finding a way.

But as to the original question. of course it woud help, it increases your con which improves the fort save.

 

[dcollins]

I have always hated this aspect of the game. I do not allow this in my campaign.

I agree, I also do not allow it. When energy drain mentions "24 hours", the only in-game rationale that makes sense is for a kind of injury that the victim slowly recovers from over the course of a day -- the save represents a whole day of recovery, not a single magic round. If a spell provides a benefit over most of the day (e.g., 3.0 endurance), then I allow it, otherwise not.

For the rules lawyers, I might offer that the language says "after 24 hours...". As DM, I'd reserve the right to pick any random time for the save after the period of 24 hours is up.

 

[Yokiboy]

But as to the original question. of course it woud help, it increases your con which improves the fort save.

Scion, I know and realize full well that Bear's Endurance helps you with all Fort saves, but I think I didn't make that clear enough to begin with.

I am surprised that there's nothing in the FAQ about this, such as being able to use the Heal skill to determine when the character faces the most critical moment, and a Bear's Endurance would help him. I've ruled, IMC, that the save doesn't take place on the second exactly 24 hours after getting drained a level, thereby disallowing just about all spells that could help.

Still, I agree with your other point, level drain is such a brutal power that there should be some sort of spell to help get through it in addition to Restoration.

TTFN,

Yokiboy

 

[Yokiboy]

I agree, I also do not allow it. When energy drain mentions "24 hours", the only in-game rationale that makes sense is for a kind of injury that the victim slowly recovers from over the course of a day -- the save represents a whole day of recovery, not a single magic round. If a spell provides a benefit over most of the day (e.g., 3.0 endurance), then I allow it, otherwise not.

You use the same argument I did dcollins, this is exactly how I played it.

 

[Li Shenron]

When energy drain mentions "24 hours", the only in-game rationale that makes sense is for a kind of injury that the victim slowly recovers from over the course of a day -- the save represents a whole day of recovery, not a single magic round. If a spell provides a benefit over most of the day (e.g., 3.0 endurance), then I allow it, otherwise not.

Unfortunately many gamers seems unwilling to move from the idea that 24 hours = 1440 minutes = 14400 rounds. Same kind of mistake as thinking that a character never learns except at the exact moment they level up in which he suddenly improves. Some call this metagaming.

 

[Squire James]

Following a strict interpretation of the rules, any caster with a fairly good idea what time it is can improve a Fortitude save by +2 by casting Bear's Endurance at the right time. Unlike some, I tend to reward creative thinking, especially when it comes to avoiding a state of being that throws the game way out of whack.

Actually, as a DM I hate Energy Drain attacks. If I employ them at all, I just assume they fade after 24 hours or when the critter that took the levels is destroyed (if I want to create some plot tension).

 

[Darklone]

I never allowed this. This may be houseruling, but I only allowed bonuses to the saving throw that lasted at least more than half of the 24h.

 

[Caliban]

Personally, I assume the character can feel the negative level building up to it's final assult on their spirit. I consider it a similar event to a fever breaking, and it is possible (with a heal or knowledge (religion) check) to predict the make or break time a few rounds in advance. Energy drain attacks are not unknown to fantasy world healers, and they would know the signs, and possible remedies.

I also choose not to go out of my way to screw my PC's over.

 

[Yokiboy]

Personally, I assume the character can feel the negative level building up to it's final assult on their spirit. I consider it a similar event to a fever breaking, and it is possible (with a heal or knowledge (religion) check) to predict the make or break time a few rounds in advance. Energy drain attacks are not unknown to fantasy world healers, and they would know the signs, and possible remedies.

I also choose not to go out of my way to screw my PC's over.

First of all, I don't go out of my way to screw over my party.

Secondly Caliban, I agree with your suggestions, and they're in line with my own. I just wish the rulebooks dealt with this issue. However, my characters didn't try to solve the level drain issue by any other means than magic. They didn't once ask if Heal could help them, although they've used it a lot lately to assist with Poison and Disease saves.

I think I'll still bail out the character who last gaming session missed his Fort save by only one point (rolled 13, needed 14) when he in fact was resting and together with the group's cleric to boot. The issue was probably in the fact that the Cleric was playerless last session, otherwise he would've been more constructive I bet.

We'll see, I think the player's growing tired of his character regardless, so a PK might be in line. He's been playing the same character for close to 20 years now.

TTFN,

Yokiboy

 

[spunky_mutters]

If you're looking for in-game rationale for allowing the save, you could consider the Bear's Endurance to be the last kick the player needs to try and kick the drain. Those kinds of saves usually happen in down time anyway, so it's not like the players are in combat or anything. You can just say that the cleric did what he could to fortify the player against the negative energy damage eating away at him, and then have the save made. Since there are no rules for determining the exact time of day when the drain happened to figure out when to apply the spell, you can just hand wave the timing issues.