beating on walls

[James McMurray]

Ok, how's this: Stone is harder than wood (i.e. the handle of a warhammer). Attacking items with hardness deals damage to the attacking object if its hardenss is less. A wooden hafted weapon will break in time due to this damage.

Sure, it isn't a highly detailed ruleset, but I don't have time for that right now.

 

[Crothian]

Now admittedly we do not have the best tools for the job. What we do have is a dwarven warhammer(metal hafted by the way) and pitons.(I forgot about those in my earlier post)

Well, we are talking about a metal hafter weapon, not a wooden one. A wooded one might break, might not. It depends more on the technique of the welder then the comparing hardnesses of materials.

With a metal hafted weapon and pitons, you should be able to take down a wall with a lot of sweat and determination.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Ok I'm not trying to be a sarcastic jerk here, but before large powerful engine driven drills existed what did miners use to knock down walls, and tunnel. My guess is picks, sledges etc. I really don't think the hammer would break normally. But in the real world, weapons and tools are different beasts, so while a weapon based hammer might break, a sledge or tool based hammer might not. In the game though there are no rules for weapons breaking while swinging them. How many times have you hit some fool in plate with your hammer, and it never breaks, and now that you attack some stone it does?

There are rules for endurance though so, long term swinging should use those rules.

 

[kreynolds]

Sure, it isn't a highly detailed ruleset, but I don't have time for that right now.

Then how is it that you have time to make a half-<bleep>ed judgement call? This is what I'm talking about folks. God forbid you ever make a ruling like that in game because "You don't have time." I shudder to think. I'm not trying to be rude (if you take it that way, oh well), I just feel really strongly about this. Half of the quality of a game is determined by the DM. If the DM stinks, a large part of the game will stink as well. Just my opinion.

Oh, and Shard makes a good point. Tell me James, do you think that miners in the mid 19th century went through a hammer a minute? That's a lot of hammers to purchase.

 

[maddman75]

kreynalds, you need to think about this a minute.

Every situation cannot be covered by the rules. It so happens that weapon wear and tear isn't covered by the rules. Does this mean that they never wear out? This seems to be what you are arguing.

For situations like this, that aren't directly covered by the rules, the DM must use his best judgement. If he tells the player that he can't breach the walls with a warhammer in three days, then he can't. It doesn't make him a bad DM, he just sees things this way.

He said he was in a dwarven stronghold - aren't there any picks, drills, or other mining equipment nearby? Try to find a better tool. Or come up with another plan.

 

[kreynolds]

kreynalds, you need to think about this a minute.

Every situation cannot be covered by the rules. It so happens that weapon wear and tear isn't covered by the rules. Does this mean that they never wear out? This seems to be what you are arguing.

You're not paying attention and I'm not gonna waste my time explaining it when you can just read my posts.

 

[James McMurray]

kreynolds: remind me never to play na campaign you run. I'd hate to ask a question that wasn't already covered in the rules and have to wait 6 hours for you to formulate a response. Especially considering how many times per session a party can try to play "stump the DM".

Being a DM is all about making snap calls. I have a group that seems pretty happy with my style. Trying to cover up your pathetic attempts at annoyance with the flimsy layer of "I'm not trying to be rude" is an insult to the intelligences of the members of this board.

As for miners running through hamers every minute, obviously that didn't happen. But then again, they were using tools designed for that kind of work, not tools designed to crush bones. I fully agree that, with the aid of pitons" this group should be able to do some damage to the place. But then again, I don't know that I'd go so far as to allow them to break down walls at their full combat damage dealing rate either.

finally, I'd be very careful about hacking at walls unless I had some form of mining training, caveins area bitch.

 

[kreynolds]

kreynolds: remind me never to play na campaign you run.

OK. Never play in a campaign I run.

I'd hate to ask a question that wasn't already covered in the rules and have to wait 6 hours for you to formulate a response.

Ah, but that's the great part! It only took me 5 minutes to figure out that your call was full of it and had no basis on logic whatsoever. You may need 6 hours, but by reading this thread, it's pretty obvious I don't.

Trying to cover up your pathetic attempts at annoyance with the flimsy layer of "I'm not trying to be rude" is an insult to the intelligences of the members of this board.

I'm not trying to be rude. You would certainly know if I was trying to be rude. Are you gonna cry now? Geez. Since when did everyone start to get so sensitive? I'd swear on my life that Dr. Phil payed a visit here at some point to give a sensitivity seminar.

 

[Crothian]

Do weapons wear out with use? Yes. Wether you are using it to destroy a wall, kill and ogre, or as dinner utensil.ss Armor is the same way. However, because of sack of ease d20 does not fave rules for daily upkeep of items. You should be sharpening that sword and oiling up the armor on a semi daily basis. It's not that the rules don't cover, this they do. Stone has hardness and HP so you know how long it'll take to destroy a stone wall. The rules just assume that all weapons and armor will never wear out unless they are being sundered, you roll a 1 on a saving throw and have that causes you equipment to be effeected, or through some fumble rules.

Some people might not like that, and that's okay. alternate rules are great for individual play.

 

[Umbran]

I'm not trying to be rude. You would certainly know if I was trying to be rude. Are you gonna cry now? Geez. Since when did everyone start to get so sensitive? I'd swear on my life that Dr. Phil payed a visit here at some point to give a sensitivity seminar.

You may not be trying, but you are succeeding.

People didn't get particularly sensitive. People are used to others not being at all abusive on these boards. The mods and community at large like it that way.

People like rational discourse here. But, as you accuse others of not listening to you, your own language suggests that you are dismissing them without thought as well. That is not a way to convince anyone. You will not generally bully people here into agreeing by being "strong" or "forceful" in language.

Stop trying to bolster your arguements by saying something is "full of it", and you'll have a much easier time getting people to listen to you. . As soon as you get even mildly insulting, you engage people's ire, rather than their minds.