Beefing up the Alignment Domains

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I just recently posted this thread about adding more restrictions to the Favored Soul, so that they're no longer head-and-shoulders above other casting classes. One of the limitations I placed, however, forcing them to select an Alignment domain, got me to thinking about the desirability of the various Alignment domains.

It occurred to me, though, that a Cleric selecting the Alignment domain (or domains) of their patron deity is displaying a particular interest in the abstract forces of morality and ethics that shape their world-- like Clerics with Elemental domains display their interest in the abstractions of the physical matter of their world.

I've been thinking, then, that the Alignment domains should function in a similar fashion, giving the Cleric (or Favored Soul, as per my rules modification) the ability to rebuke, command, or bolster allied Outsiders and turn or destroy opposed Outsiders. This would make the alignment domains more desirable, at least in games which feature a goodly number of Outsiders, and even in games with a fairly normal distribution of Outsiders, it makes the Alignment domains something better than the consolation prize of the deific lottery.

Of course, with nine separate domains giving turn/rebuke abilities against various creatures, it might not be much of a stretch to restrict turning and rebuking undead to the Sun and Death domains, respectively-- but that would be a topic for a different thread.

 

[Li Shenron]

If you compare a Turn Outsider ability from a domain to the Turn Elemental ability form the domains of Fire/Water/Earth/Air, IMHO on the average campaign the Turn Outsider is going to be definitely more useful. At least IMXP evil outsiders are more common than elementals.

For this reason I think it would be a very good ability for the Good domain, moderately good for the Law and Chaos domain, and not-so-good for the Evil domain (I'm still thinking about the average campaign, where you're far less likely to meet or fight a Celestial than a Fiend).

OTOH, the elemental domains compensate for the limited use of the special abilities with a few spells otherwise unavailable to clerics, while the alignment domains only give 1 new spell each (the level 4 Holy Smite or equivalent), so for me it would be fair if the special ability is better than Turn Elemental.

I therefore think it's a good idea to grant Turn Outsider (opposite alignment)

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Would you limit that to turn (opposite), or would you include rebuke (same), as I proposed?

 

[Li Shenron]

Would you limit that to turn (opposite), or would you include rebuke (same), as I proposed?

It would make Law and Chaos more useful in the average campaign, but I think there'd be no problem in allowing both options. I'd still keep the TOTAL number of 3+Cha per day, like Turn Undead.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I'd still keep the TOTAL number of 3+Cha per day, like Turn Undead.

Certainly so-- essentially, your first domain that grants turn/rebuke gives you your daily uses, and each domain that adds another creature type simply allows you to use those attempts on another creature type.

 

[Terath Ninir]

Certainly so-- essentially, your first domain that grants turn/rebuke gives you your daily uses, and each domain that adds another creature type simply allows you to use those attempts on another creature type.

That's always been my problem with the elemental turnings -- they give you all-new uses you have to keep track of. I'd rather just have one bucket of turn attempts to look at, whatever you can turn with it...

 

[Baronovan]

I disagree. Pooling multiple turning attempts just doesn't make sense, nor does limiting you to turning any types of creatures that you can only 3+Cha/day.

 

[Terath Ninir]

I disagree. Pooling multiple turning attempts just doesn't make sense, nor does limiting you to turning any types of creatures that you can only 3+Cha/day.

Why not? Speaking as a player, I'd rather have one set of turning attempts per day. Easier bookkeeping. If you feel they need more power, give them +1 or +2 turning attempts for an added ability.

Speaking as a DM, I REALLY don't want the paperwork of extra types of turning attempts.

 

[Nifft]

Alignment Domains have WONDERFUL domain powers. There's very few things better than +1 caster level. If you want to beef it up, all you need to do is give more spells alignment descriptors.

1) Give all spells on the Alignment list the appropriate descriptor.

2) Give all spells that deal Divine damage an (optional?) alignment descriptor. I'm looking at you, flame strike.

3) Align more spells. Hold person? Law. Entropic Shield? Chaos. Shield Other? Good. Bestow Curse? Evil.

4) Add aligned versions of specific spells. E.g.: Lawgmented Hold Person -- as Hold Person, but can only be cast by [Law]-aligned Clerics, and victim is stunned for one round even if she makes her save. E.g.2: Chaotic Shield -- as Entropic Shield, but also grants you a deflection bonus to AC +1/3 levels.

-- N

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I disagree. Pooling multiple turning attempts just doesn't make sense, nor does limiting you to turning any types of creatures that you can only 3+Cha/day.

Are you saying that Clerics should be able to turn undead unlimited times per day?

Would this also apply to Divine feats?

I think the limits are a very solid, reasonable idea. There's no sense in removing them.