Beginning Bard Needs Help

[Charberus]

I am starting a game with a 2nd lvl Half-Fey Kenku [MM3] Bard (Chaotic Neutral :: Worshiper of Vecna). I have never played a bard before, nor have i seen someone in the group play bards. I am looking forward to a long life for this bard.

I am trying to get a good idea as to how i am going roleplay the bard. Any tips/tricks the bard could use for getting information, as well as ideas as to how to make the bard more interesting by using skills/spells, would help me alot. I keep thinking of ways that rogues would use skills/spells, but I am beginning to wonder if bards have better ways.

Goal: Gatherer of Information and Secrets
Likes: Tricks/illusions, Charm Person and Disguises
Dislikes: Fights/Confrontation
Skills: Bluff, Disguise, Diplomacy, Gather Info, Perform [String Instriments, Singing, Wind Instriments], Spellcraft, Concentration, Knowledge (Arcana)
Feats: Undecided

Thanks

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Hi Charberus,

The one thing I hate when people describe "their" version of a Bard is "Jack of all trades, master of none". If you want to take all the fun out of playing a bard, look at them in this mechanical and simplistic way. For me, a bard should specialise in one thing - themselves! Your reputation is everything. What you can weave with your tongue can be infinitely more powerful than a sword or wand - if you let it. The proviso here is that you are playing a game focused upon roleplaying or at least a game with enough downtime and "city" stuff that you can put your powers to the fore. A bard stuck in a dungeon is not a happy bard - unless he is using it to make up stories and tales etc. for later on.

Anyway, it definitely seems like you want a skill focused Bard. In which case then, focus on Charisma and Intelligence as your main attributes. Diplomacy, Bluff, Gather Info and Perform are your staple in terms of skills. You can really boost these up and thus turn yourself into a "specialist". By scooting up sense motive and knowledge (nobility & royalty), you are getting a lot of synergy bonuses on that diplomacy attribute. A cloak of charisma and the big guy - a Choker of Eloquence (+10 to all diplomacy, bluff and performance (singing) check) and you will literally be able to stop attackers in their steps. If you choose Skill focus for your first level feat (in Gather Information by the sounds of things) then you have a pretty strong set up.

As for the actual roleplaying aspects - the biggest factor here is to know people. By knowing different people, you yourself become known. You end up having contacts all over the place and again, your perceived power increases. Do "select" performances and play before the highest paying crowds and nobility. Woo young maidens off of their feet - kind of difficult when you're a Kenku I think (I'm not real sure on why you chose that actually) but you get the idea. Your "personsa" becomes much larger, much more heroic than the actual character itself. If you wish to enhance this further, take the Leadership feat and reap the benefits of your "network". See my story hour if you want to see how Lucifus uses leadership: mainly for a brute of a Half-Orc to protect him and a posse of "wives, courtesans and other women following him around for status".

In terms of spells, don't let people know you can do them - pretend that you're a rogue even. If people know you have magic, they will automatically be cautious about being befuddled. Your magic should be hidden away quite carefully for you to know and others not to. As well, don't sing in battle. At least not at first anyway. Save your singing when it means life and death, not for background music. A little bit of attitude here does not go astray.

Anyway post back - apologies for the rantishness - and I hope you enjoy your bard, I look forward to seeing how it develops.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Charberus]

Beginning Bard II

Wow, your information is really helpful, Herremann the Wise. I was originally planning on being all 'sneakish' and using alot of disguises to make people think that i am other people. But, I had always thought it didnt seem right. After reading your post, you made some really good comments and pointers about being a bard, that i am redoing how i am going to roleplay the bard.

I plan on wearing fancy clothing, getting magical items that help me travel in style, and focus on feats that gives me more influence and charismic charm. I will try to use magic only when needed, and if I do...I will be flashy (description wise), yet subtle about it. I will try to not sing in battle right off, but instead use it in times of 'dire need.' Maybe, in battle sing a song like Sir Robin's did in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

On a side note; I loved your story and how your cohorts work. Although i hate having more stats for more players, I could have them run buisnesses and other stores around the towns i have visited. Maybe, have it work as 'connections' so that i could get magical items cheaper.

 

[fusangite]

I am starting a game with a 2nd lvl Half-Fey Kenku [MM3] Bard (Chaotic Neutral :: Worshiper of Vecna). I have never played a bard before, nor have i seen someone in the group play bards. I am looking forward to a long life for this bard.

I am trying to get a good idea as to how i am going roleplay the bard. Any tips/tricks the bard could use for getting information, as well as ideas as to how to make the bard more interesting by using skills/spells, would help me alot. I keep thinking of ways that rogues would use skills/spells, but I am beginning to wonder if bards have better ways.

Goal: Gatherer of Information and Secrets
Likes: Tricks/illusions, Charm Person and Disguises
Dislikes: Fights/Confrontation
Skills: Bluff, Disguise, Diplomacy, Gather Info, Perform [String Instriments, Singing, Wind Instriments], Spellcraft, Concentration, Knowledge (Arcana)
Feats: Undecided

Bards are, of course, a trifle underpowered so I think it is important to be a little economical. While you might want to max-out three separate perform skills, let me advise against that. Essentially what you're doing there is making your 3.5E bard into a 3.0E bard by reducing their base skills points from 6 back to 4. So, please reconsider re-allocating you Perform skill into: Decipher Script and Use Magic Device. Both of these skills fit well with your desired to gather information and do illusions.

So, my version of you first-level bard might look like this (I'm gathering he has an Int of 14):
Skills
Bluff: 4 ranks
Disguise: 4 ranks
Gather Information: 4 ranks
Perform (singing): 4 ranks
Spellcraft: 4 ranks
Concentration: 4 ranks
Know (arcana): 4 ranks
Decipher Script: 4 ranks
Use Magic Device: 4 ranks
Feats
Skill Focus (Concentration)
Magical Aptitude

In my view, Magical Aptitude is a good choice for exactly one class: the bard. Only bards have both Use Magic Device and Spellcraft and ideally, you want a character who can quickly learn how to decipher any magic scroll, etc. Of course, Skill Focus (Concentration) is crucial for any casting in melee. Also, remember that UMD is charisma-based.

Once you hit second level, you should have some lovely synergies if you continue maxing-out this set of skills that should permit you at a quite low level to pick up and interpret anybody's scrolls.

My advice for a 3rd level feat to move towards would be Spell Focus (Illusion) or Spell Focus (Enchantment).

It's important when considering spells for bards and sorcerors not to pick spells that will become useless as the character gains levels. But at zero-level, this should not be a problem. I'd recommend: Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Read Magic and Dancing Lights. Although Mage Hand, Daze, Light and Mending are all excellent alternatives. My feeling is that Ghost Sound and Dancing Lights are part of the feel of the character you're proposing, as is Daze.

 

[diaglo]

multiclass immediately.

the best bard is one not played.

 

[Whimsical]

Find ways to use your charisma and social skills. See each NPC or social group in the game as a locked treasure box full of goodies and you are the ones with the lockpicking skills. Everyone wants to help you like they would help their own beloved mother. They just don't know it yet.

Because of my social bard/rogue, I'm able to get uncooperative government officials to become valued contacts who work for us instead of against us. I am able to sell our swag and buy new stuff for great prices. I am able to get ALL of the relevant facts about a person, organization, or location. I'm able to keep thuggish toll collecters from attacking us while we pass. I am able to get information from a victim traumatized by fear. I am able to successfully counter the effects of slander and spin them back to the accuser. I can skillfully defend myself or my compaions in a court of law. I am able to enter and function in high society, and even the social circles of a foreign land. People give of themselves to me; whether their time, expertise, or resources; without realizing it or understading why.

But I only made this character because I knew the DM ran a game world where CHA and social skills really matter. And it was clear when I was observing the party before I joined the game, watching them be harrased by government officials and watching them being slandered by an NPC bard, that they could seriously benefit from a very charismatic socializer. And I was right.

 

[tarchon]

The Bard's Munchkin Fakebook contains the secrets to bardic success in 3.0, though it hasn't been revised for 3.5. It doesn't multiclass as well in 3.5, but the new spell failure rule, spell swap out rule, extra skill points, and new bardic music abilities have pumped up the power a lot.

 

[Dog Moon]

Originally posted by diaglo
multiclass immediately.

the best bard is one not played.

If this is true, then why did WOTC even make the Bard, Bard items, Bard feats, Bard spells, or Bard PrCs?

Originally posted by fusangite
While you might want to max-out three separate perform skills, let me advise against that.

Yeah, I kinda agree with this. As fun as it would be to know how to perform any and all perform skills, it's very pointless. You only really need one for their abilities to be useful and spreading them to different skills allows the Bard to be a little more useful than what it is now.

 

[tarchon]

Perform [String Instriments, Singing, Wind Instriments]

Say, I just looked up kenku, and aren't they like giant bird people who are incapable of speech?

 

[MrFilthyIke]

Say, I just looked up kenku, and aren't they like giant bird people who are incapable of speech?

"I'll show you incapable of speech..." *peck*peck*peck*peck*