Beguiler in core books game

[AddizAbeba]

Hi everyone,

I DM a core books campaign, with some elements from other books (like augment crystals, ElSav prestige class, potionbelt, some feats).

Now a new player wants to play a beguiler. Since I do not have the PH2, I would like to know what problems I might be facing; essentially this PC will be the only beguiler on my world... but is that bad? A beguiler looks like a somewhat-sorcerer with a severely restricted spell list, or are there issues I am overlooking?

Thanks!

 

[Thurbane]

I think adding any non-core class into a core-only game can lead to problems. Sometimes they have abilties that sit well with other optional rules, but can be a bit overpowering if everyone else is only using core material.

One of my players is running a beguiler in our first campaign incorporating non-core materials, and it's a pretty nifty class. I perosnally believe it more than makes up for it's narrow spell focus on charming/deception spells by the fact that the Beguiler instantly knows all spell of any level he can cast on his spell list. Couple this with a d6 HD, good skill selection, ability to cast in light armor and other special abilties and it can be easy for a Beguiler to eclipse the humble Sorcerer...just my 2 cents anyway...

 

[Particle_Man]

The Beguiler is like a specialist sorcerer. He can do lots of enchantment and illusion stuff but no blasting, conjuring, transmuting, divination, etc., stuff. His only damage spells do non-lethal damage. Its nice to have a bigger daily list to choose from but the spells on that daily list are pretty similar, and all target a will save.

If he gets annoying, send in the undead or enemies with high will saves.

I would say that he is relatively weak combat-wise but does well in the "sneak around/con artist/locks and traps" kind of niche.

 

[lukelightning]

If he gets annoying, send in the undead or enemies with high will saves.

Yeah, I just started playing a 1st level beguiler, and the first monsters we fought were sahuagin. Monstrous humanoids, so daze wouldn't work on them, and a +4 will save.

 

[SadisticFishing]

Yep, imagine a sorceror with only enchantment and illusion spells, that gets d6s, 6+int skill points (and is based on intellect, so even more), and trapfinding. If you don't have an expert already, a beguiler is amazing for it.

Oh they also get light armor and can feint in combat and it makes their spell DCs go up, and +2 on caster checks for spell resistance (eventually).

Generally, they're odd to have in a party, because a lot of their stuff is save or die, and not regular damage, so they don't exactly help out the fighter, but they can end a fight very quickly (Feeblemind ftw). Also, since they have so much nonlethal damage, you can actually have a D&D game where the party doesn't kill *everyone* they fight.

 

[lukelightning]

Oh they also get light armor and can feint in combat and it makes their spell DCs go up, and +2 on caster checks for spell resistance (eventually).

Beguilers have no business trying to feint in combat. You have to be in melee combat to do this, which I think is an unreasonable risk. By the time you can get your improved feint stuff, you're far better off turning invisible and getting your sneaky casting that way.

 

[Darklone]

I don't think Beguilers are a problem without Fey Heritage feats.

 

[lukelightning]

Luckily figments work perfectly fine against mindless things. So while you're much weaker against things like undead, at least you can confound them with images; lure skeletons away with some images of tasty fat hobbit babies, fool some ghouls into attempting to dine on a major image of corpses, use disguise self to look like another zombie (hey, if the 6 zombies in the room aren't killing each other, there must be a reason). Etc.

And you can buff your fellow party members; you might not be good in undead skullbashing but I bet your fighter friend would appreciate a greater invisibility while he's toe-to-toe with a mummy, and you can always haste the whole party.

 

[smootrk]

Beguilers make fine Rogue stand-ins for most situations, and a Beguiler who takes a few rogue levels (preferably before starting the beguiler levels) is a superb magical-rogue type of character. They will not be heavy damage dealers, but if the campaign is more urban/intrigue/political/ or otherwise non-combat intensive, then this kind of character can really shine.

 

[lukelightning]

a Beguiler who takes a few rogue levels (preferably before starting the beguiler levels) is a superb magical-rogue type of character

Why bother with any rogue levels? It's not worth losing your caster levels and you don't gain much...a couple more skill points and some piddling sneak attack which will miss anyways and can't even use with your spells (since beguilers have no or virtually no "weapon-like" spells).