Beguilers & Warmages can learn any spell

[satori01]

Technically Beguilers & Warmages can use the feat Extra Spell from Complete Arcane to learn any spell, be it Divine or Arcane and be able to cast it.

Both the Beguiler and the Warmage under the Spells section of their Class Features have a line that says:

Essentially, his {the Warmage and Beguiler} spell list is the same as his spells known list.

The poor Dread Necromancer, which I think most will agree is a caster of a similiar stripe to the Beguiler and Warmage, lacks that line in its class description.

So going completely by RAW, Beguilers and Warmages can use the Extra Spell Feat to learn any spell, subject to the limitations of the Extra Spell Feat,(spell must be one level lower than highest level of spell you can currently cast).

 

[Particle_Man]

Luckily, most sane dms will houserule that so that we don't get beguilers casting lightning bolts or the like.

 

[ForceUser]

The feat is poorly worded, but there's an easy fix: The spell you can choose must already be on your class spell list. Wizards, then, wouldn't be able to use Extra Spell to pick up cure serious wounds, and the feat would be moot for warmages who already have access to their entire list. Sorcerers and bards, then, become the true beneficiaries of this feat, as it can be assumed was intended.

 

[Mistwell]

What would be so broken about Wizards picking up cure serious wounds? Couldn't they just independantly research such a spell anyway?

 

[RigaMortus2]

What would be so broken about Wizards picking up cure serious wounds? Couldn't they just independantly research such a spell anyway?

With DM consent, sure... Which begs the question, why would a Wizard pick the feat in the first place if they can always research their own version of it?

 

[Mistwell]

With DM consent, sure... Which begs the question, why would a Wizard pick the feat in the first place if they can always research their own version of it?

Monte Cook explains it for his similar feat (unique spell) in Arcana Evolved. You can either go through the full process of independantly researching a new spell, which involves time and gold and experience points and some negotiaiton with the DM and probably some roleplaying stuff, or you can use this feat as a short-cut to develope the spell without all that hassle and with a bit more lee-way from the DM since you are using a feat to get it.

 

[Thanee]

Everyone says the feat is poorly worded all the time, that's not the case.

The core rules are poorly worded! That's where the vagueness is.

Now, if we assume (which is totally reasonable), that the core rules mean to say, that casters can (unless specified otherwise) only learn spells from their own class lists (I mean, really, what else could be meant there), then everything nicely falls into place as it should be.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Technically Beguilers & Warmages can use the feat Extra Spell from Complete Arcane to learn any spell, be it Divine or Arcane and be able to cast it.

Technically Warmages (and similar casters) cannot learn spells, since there are no rules about how they would do that (other than class abilities like Advanced Learning, which specifies how it is done, and which just adds spells to their class list, they don't technically learn those spells, they simply know them).

The text you quoted for your argument doesn't work, IMHO, since Warmages don't really have a seperate spells known list, hence the 'essential' there. It's just a comparison with regular spontaneous casters (bards, sorcerers, etc), and an explanation of the sentence that comes before that one.

Taken out of context and turned upside down, it might look like what you said above, but it's not the rule you read in there... which would be, that their spells known list becomes their class spell list, and that effects that alter their spells known list also alter their class spell list. That's not the case, it's the other way around, they know all spells on their class spell list.

They only have the class spell list and know all spells from it. There is no need for anything else (since essentially, they are the same, anyways, therefore they don't need one). It's one and the same thing.

Only effects, that change the class spell list (like Advanced Learning) allow Warmages to expand their spell repertoire.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Glyfair]

What would be so broken about Wizards picking up cure serious wounds? Couldn't they just independantly research such a spell anyway?

They could. Most DMs wouldn't allow that, because they'd be stepping on the divine casters/bards territory.

Of the DMs that would allow it, almost all of them would have major restrictions and it would probably be a much higher level. I wouldn't consider letting a wizard have a CLW spell at any level lower than 3rd. More than likely to get a wizard spell that heals you'd have one of the more odd spells out there that allow them to do it (which, in the history of D&D, are very high level, and usually have many side effects and requirements).

 

[Shellman]

Technically Beguilers & Warmages can use the feat Extra Spell from Complete Arcane to learn any spell, be it Divine or Arcane and be able to cast it.

Both the Beguiler and the Warmage under the Spells section of their Class Features have a line that says:

Essentially, his {the Warmage and Beguiler} spell list is the same as his spells known list.

The poor Dread Necromancer, which I think most will agree is a caster of a similiar stripe to the Beguiler and Warmage, lacks that line in its class description.

So going completely by RAW, Beguilers and Warmages can use the Extra Spell Feat to learn any spell, subject to the limitations of the Extra Spell Feat,(spell must be one level lower than highest level of spell you can currently cast).

Technically that is incorrect. Since Warmages have a set spell list, they cannot learn a spell that is not on there spell list.

If the Warmage's spell list was more like a Sorcerer's, then this might be possible.

If you look at the Warmage's class features, they gain advanced learning feature which allows them to learn a new evocation spell from the Wizard/ Sorcerer spell list.

PHB II has a new Warmage class feature "Eclectic Learning", which allows a Warmage to learn a new spell which they would normally not have access to. Eclectic Learning can take the place of Advanced Learning at any level the Warmage would normally gain the class feature. But eclectic learning raises the spell level for a Warmage. Meaning a 4th level wizard/ sorcerer spell would be a 5th level Warmage spell.