Behold! Yet Another Broken Psionic Power

[Nail]

This came up in last week's game:

Ectoplasmic Cocoon, Mass
Metacreativity
Level: Shaper 7

Yoowza! Far better than the similar Sor/Wiz 7 spell Forcecage!

Let's look at the benefits of Mass Ectoplasmic Cocoon over Forcecage:

• Cheaper: no 1,500 gp material component,
• Longer range: Medium vs. Close,
• Wider area and more targets: 20' radius burst and multiple targets vs 10' closed cube and probably one target,
• Targets are helpless and can take only mental actions; vs. the Forcescage's not helpless and can take any actions or cast any spells they'd like,
• Like all psionics, very scalable; in this case you can increase save DC or affect larger creatures.

To be fair, the psionic version allows a Ref save...but given Ref saves are usually poor, and you can increase the DC.....I'd say the two magicks are the equal here. Oh yeah: The psionic version lasts only 1 hour per level, rather than 2. Whoop-dee-dee.

Again: check out that list above. The psionics version is better, hands down. WTF!!!

 

[Jdvn1]

... I think the Reflex save is a huge mitigating factor. There are always characters with good Ref saves in my parties, at least.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I'll have to disagree, very strongly. Forcecage is obscenely powerful because any PC without teleportation or disintegration magic (i.e. everybody but a wizard) automatically loses, period. There is no way to avoid Forcecage: no save, no attack roll, no SR, nothing. Your only chance is to be very large. Epic level monster? Sorry, you lose to Forcecage, even if you have SR 120 and Ref +400 (assuming the PCs can kill you for the 24 hours+ while you're in the cage [Player: "Umm I guess I can take 20 on my attack roll."]). If you have ranged attacks, they can use the other version and pummel your buddies, go to sleep, and kill you the next day. You simply have no chance if they stick you in the cage with an Antimagic Field up (unless you're an archer, and even then, they can use the version that allows no attacks)

I'm sorry but Forcecage is much more powerful (the Reflex save is a big deal). All of my PCs get Reflex save protection ASAP because of all those spells that use them. If they can't find anything else, they'll take Lightning Reflexes; they don't want to be the one that gets burnt to cinders by a fireball

 

[EricNoah]

You can't count scalability (increased DC for example) as a strike against it -- if you scale it up, it's no longer a 7th level power.

 

[Darkness]

You generally can't destroy a forcecage with a weapon, can you? The cocoon has hardness 8 and 20 hp.

 

[EricNoah]

Ah, there you go -- good call Darkness! That plus the saving throw = two spells you really can't compare directly.

 

[shilsen]

You generally can't destroy a forcecage with a weapon, can you? The cocoon has hardness 8 and 20 hp.

Right. A forcecage is immune to weapon damage. That's a huge mitigating factor where this cocoon is concerned.

And another "Oooh, this is soooo broken!!!" thread hits the dust

 

[Nail]

Hits the dust? Not at all.

It's true the Cocoon can be damaged....but only by those not caught in its effect. It seems to me friends on the outside could help you out of a Forcecage too, given magic. And that comment up there about an Epic monster being trapped....oh come on: no dimension door, teleport, or plane shift-like power handy? Those tend to be the very same ones that are too big to fit in the spell effect. Moot point.


Moreover, as I've pointed out above, those in the 'Cocoon are helpless -- completely unable to use spells that have V, S, or M components, completely unable to use magic items with command word or use activation, completely unable to free themselves in any way other than "purely mental action". IIRC, that even rules out a quickened Dimension Door, although I'd be happy to be mistaken on that.

Finally, let's not forget the material component cost of the psionic power....oh wait, you mean the psionic power doesn't have a 1,500gp per casting material component cost?

 

[Nail]

That plus the saving throw = two spells you really can't compare directly.

Errr? Comparison not possible because the two spells are not exactly the same? Surely you don't mean that.

 

[Nail]

You can't count scalability (increased DC for example) as a strike against it -- if you scale it up, it's no longer a 7th level power.

Of course...and yet, arcane casters have a level 8 or level 9 version of Forcecage? It's true this is a common complaint with all psionic powers......