Belt of Dwarvenkind - Best Deal Ever?

[Jack Simth]

Not the best deal ever - they are fixed bonuses, and it doesn't stack with much - but yes, a very good deal; one that, unless you're the party face, you're liable to hang onto for a long time.

For now, we'll say that the interaction bonuses and penalties cancel each other out (the penalties will usually come up more often than the bonuses, though). So a non-dwarf gets:
60 foot darkvision
+2 Enhancement to Constitution
+2 Resistance to most the saves you'll make every day (spells, spell-like abilities, and poisons)

However, three levels later, you'll want to upgrade that. The catch is that it's a specific item, and isn't upgradeable. You can upgrade a +2 Cloak/Vest of Resistance to a +3, +4, or even a +5 for the right sum; the Belt of Dwarvenkind won't upgrade - and the two items don't stack. If you get the Cloak/Vest of Resistance to get better saves (and most will want to, eventually) you lose the benefit of the resistance.

Likewise with the Constitution bonus - +2 is great... but later, you'll want that Amulet of Health +6. And the two don't stack.

Ultimately, all you're getting out of it is the darkvision ... and Goggles of Night are slighly cheaper.

Until that point, though, the Enhancement to Con is worth about 4k, the Resistance is worth a little under 4k (because it doesn't apply to, say, a pit trap, or a Basilisk's stare) and the Darkvision is technically worth about 12k - about 18 or 19 thousand gold in seperate items for 14,900 gp - and only one item slot, instead of three.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Heh. We're playing a gestalt barbarian campaign at the moment. The DM declared that all characters would be illiterate unless they had wizard levels or spent 2 skill points on Literacy.

None of us took wizard levels, and none of us spent the points - so we had a party of illiterates.

This led to some problems... like the door marked with phrases like "Danger Danger Danger", and "Evil Lurks Within", and "Caution: Do Not Open" (we opened it), or the magical helm with the command word engraved inside, or the diary we found in the ruined dwarven fortress...

And then we found the Belt of Dwarvenkind, and the DM checked exactly what it does...

"... allows the wearer to speak, understand, and read Dwarven..."



-Hyp.

 

[Mistwell]

Not the best deal ever - they are fixed bonuses, and it doesn't stack with much - but yes, a very good deal; one that, unless you're the party face, you're liable to hang onto for a long time.

For now, we'll say that the interaction bonuses and penalties cancel each other out (the penalties will usually come up more often than the bonuses, though). So a non-dwarf gets:
60 foot darkvision
+2 Enhancement to Constitution
+2 Resistance to most the saves you'll make every day (spells, spell-like abilities, and poisons)

However, three levels later, you'll want to upgrade that. The catch is that it's a specific item, and isn't upgradeable. You can upgrade a +2 Cloak/Vest of Resistance to a +3, +4, or even a +5 for the right sum; the Belt of Dwarvenkind won't upgrade - and the two items don't stack. If you get the Cloak/Vest of Resistance to get better saves (and most will want to, eventually) you lose the benefit of the resistance.

Likewise with the Constitution bonus - +2 is great... but later, you'll want that Amulet of Health +6. And the two don't stack.

Ultimately, all you're getting out of it is the darkvision ... and Goggles of Night are slighly cheaper.

Until that point, though, the Enhancement to Con is worth about 4k, the Resistance is worth a little under 4k (because it doesn't apply to, say, a pit trap, or a Basilisk's stare) and the Darkvision is technically worth about 12k - about 18 or 19 thousand gold in seperate items for 14,900 gp - and only one item slot, instead of three.

All magic items, even specific ones, are now upgradeable. Some will argue that even before the Magic Item Compendium they were upgradeable, but after the MIC I think there is no question anymore on the subject. You can add new abilities, or increase existing ones like the strength bonus.

 

[Jack Simth]

All magic items, even specific ones, are now upgradeable. Some will argue that even before the Magic Item Compendium they were upgradeable, but after the MIC I think there is no question anymore on the subject. You can add new abilities, or increase existing ones like the strength bonus.

Don't tell me they stopped calling the Magic Item Creation Guidlines "Guidelines" and the entire section about "Not all items adhere to these formulas directly"?

Not one I've got; but then, not all DM's permit all sources; so what's the cost difference between a standard Belt of Dwarvenkind with a +2 Con/+2 Resistance and an "upgraded" Belt of Dwarvenkind with a +4 Con/+4 Resistence?

 

[Quartz]

The catch is that it's a specific item, and isn't upgradeable.

Who says you can't upgrade it?

 

[Jack Simth]

Who says you can't upgrade it?

Put it another way....

If you're going from a Cloak of Resistance +2 to a Cloak of Resistance +3, on the other hand, there's no problem; the two are very easily defined, and they're the exact same type of item. A Cloak of Resistance +3 has a market price of 9,000 gp; a Cloak of Resistance +2, 4,000 gp. The cost to upgrade is the price difference - 5,000 gp to hire, or 2,500 gp and 200 xp to do yourself. It's clearly laid out, no fuss, no muss.

If you're going from an Amulet of Health +2 to an Amulet of Health +4, on the other hand, there's no problem; the two are very easily defined, and they're the exact same type of item. An Amulet of Health +2 has a market price of 4,000 gp; an Amulet of Health +4, 16,000 gp. The cost to upgrade is the price difference - 12,000 gp to hire, or 6,000 gp and 480 xp to do yourself. It's clearly laid out, no fuss, no muss.

The Belt of Dwarvenkind doesn't clearly correspond to any particular guideline. Seperately, the +2 Con is worth 4,000 gp (for an amulet). The +2 Resistance is almost worth 4,000 gp (for the Cloak of Resistance +2, minus a bit for it not applying to all saves). The Darkvision is supposedly worth 12,000 gp (for Goggles of Night). Guidelines would suggest additional abilities cost more, not less - and yet the Con and Darkvision alone are worth 16,000 gp as seperate items. If you use the +50% guideline for secondary powers, it goes up to 18,000 - and still without including the Resistance bonus to saves or the Dwarven language proficiency. Plus it's off-slot; Darkvision in something other than an Eye slot, Con in something other than a Protection slot, and so on.

How do you price improvements on it without pure DM call?

 

[Mistwell]

The guidelines for ability enhancement increases to any item are all listed in the MIC. I'd link you to a thread that lists them all, but my search command seems to have disappeared.