D&D (2024) Best fix for conjure minor elemental?

[mellored]

One other alternative is you could have it function similar to spirit guardians.

They did that with Conjure Animals.
But how about crusaders mantle?


When an enemy in the emanation takes damage by an attack from any source, it takes an additional 1d8 damage.

 

[TheSword]

CME clearly scales harder than intended.

So what's the best way to fix it?
Once per turn?
Melee / weapon only?
Scale by 1d8 per level?
1d8 every other level?
Something else?

Really? You’re only getting 1 attack. Is it worse than sneak attack by that point?

Takes an action where effectively you’re getting no effect for a round.

9 points of extra damage a round at 4th level slot
27 extra damage at 6th level slot.
54 extra damage with a 9th levell slot

I’m sure you can find spells that do a hell of a lot more damage at those particularly levels. That don’t require an attack roll.

Now if you can get the multiple attacks I guess it gets better but feel it still doesn’t set the world on fire… like a meteor swarm would for instance.

 

[mellored]

Really? You’re only getting 1 attack. Is it worse than sneak attack by that point?

Takes an action where effectively you’re getting no effect for a round.

9 points of extra damage a round at 4th level slot
27 extra damage at 6th level slot.
54 extra damage with a 9th levell slot

I’m sure you can find spells that do a hell of a lot more damage at those particularly levels. That don’t require an attack roll.

Now if you can get the multiple attacks I guess it gets better but feel it still doesn’t set the world on fire… like a meteor swarm would for instance.

Eldrich Blast + Quicken Eldrich Blast = 8 attack. (+5 more if your a Valor Bard with a friendly Haste on you).

8 * 54 extra damage = 432 extra damage, per round. For 10 minutes.

Also, Scorching Ray is 8 attacks.

 

[TheSword]

Eldrich Blast + Quicken Eldrich Blast = 8 attack. (+5 more if your a Valor Bard with a friendly Haste on you).

8 * 54 extra damage = 432 extra damage, per round. For 10 minutes.

Also, Scorching Ray is 8 attacks.

An attack is defined on page 15 as ‘an attack with a weapon or unarmed strike’.

Note the different language with the hunters mark spell that refers to ‘attack roll’.

So +54 damage on an attack and only if the target is within 15 feet.

Bigbys hand also scales by 2d8 per extra level dealing 5d8 + 8d8 with a 9th level slot. Plus that leaves you to cast another spell each round as well.

If a 9th level wizard or Druid is making attacks as their action each round then I’m cool with that.

 

[mellored]

An attack is defined on page 15 as ‘an attack with a weapon or unarmed strike’.

Note the different language with the hunters mark spell that refers to ‘attack roll’.

So +54 on an attack and only if the target is within 15 feet.

If that is the case, it mostly solve the issue.

You can still get 4 attacks as a Valor Bard. Multi-attack + Nick + Dual Wielder.

But still, +212 per round, single target, nothing on a miss, is back in the realm of normal.

 

[ECMO3]

CME clearly scales harder than intended when combined with lots of attacks. Mainly Scorching Ray and (quicken) Eldritch Blast.

I.e.
Cast CME at 9th level, it adds 12d8 per attack
Use Eldritch Blast + Quicken Eldritch Blast for 8 attacks.
8d10 +96d8 = 476 damage per round.
*Not included Agonizing Blast.


So what's the best way to fix it?
Once per turn?
Melee / weapon only?
Scale by 1d8 per level?
1d8 every other level?
Something completely different?

I just do not see this being a huge problem in play. It takes a round to cast so this is 2 turns to pull off the 476 damage you describe above. On the first round it is half that much. It is a 9th level spell and you have to hang on to concentration and you need a level of Warlock to get it, meaning you are getting it 1 level later than you would otherwise.

You can do it with upcast Scorching Ray on a single class build, but then you get no damage at all on the first turn and are burning a 9th and 8th level spell.

I mean Meteor Swarm is 4 separate area of effects that average 140 at each 40 foot location, do half damage on a save and can target 4 areas a mile away and it does this on the first round.

Is it powerful? Yes. Is it OP? Not IMO.

 

[Gladius Legis]

Make the damage once per enemy per turn. Give it a niche of it being more effective when attacking multiple enemies.

 

[bedir than]

On round 1 the caster does no damage.
On round 2 the caster gets to attempt to hit via spell attack 8 creatures, but only if they are are either 10 or 15 feet away. Those at 5' you attack at disadvantage.

This exploit seems like it would have a minimal impact, because it requires an opponent to be in a very specific spot and forces the PC to roll to-hit frequently

 

[DrJawaPhD]

An attack is defined on page 15 as ‘an attack with a weapon or unarmed strike’.

Interesting interpretation, I think you are wrong but I am not certain.

Facts:

• Page 15 (and Page 361) defines Attack Action (does not include spells).
• Page 361 defines Attack Roll, which DOES include spells.
• Conjure Minor Elementals refers to "any attack".

Open to interpretation:

• Does "any attack" mean any Attack Action, or any Attack Roll? I would interpret "any attack" to mean Attack Roll, which does include spells. I am not positive that this is correct though.

 

[mellored]

On round 1 the caster does no damage.

On round 1 the caster uses quicken, dealing half damage. Round 2 combat is over.


or get ally with arcane eye/familiar to scout so you know when to pre-cast it.
someone with, alert + Haste to give you an extra attack -> Valor Bard -> Eldritch Blast for 12 shots.
And a monk to move you / enemies into position.

And you could probably kill eveyone on round 1.

On round 2 the caster gets to attempt to hit via spell attack 8 creatures, but only if they are are either 10 or 15 feet away. Those at 5' you attack at disadvantage.

Spell Sniper solves disadvantage. And will be quite useful for Eldritch Blast/ scorching ray anyways. If the enemy doesn't come close you'll even easier.

Though, using Foresight for your 9th level slot and CME at level 8 is likely more damage.