D&D (2024) Best fix for conjure minor elemental?

mellored

Legend
I think a more accurate statement is I have a more diverse experience than you do because I play more games and play with players worldwide.
Fair.

But I will still assuming allies aren't going to get in the way.
In most boss fights at 17th level plus the Barbarian is going to do more damage than you are going to do with CME.

Ranged attacks exist.
Your argument is that i can't get within 160' without being blasted for 2 rounds and being frightening.

So why would a Barbarian be able to?
 

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mellored

Legend
Hmm...

Sorcerer 2/Warlock 2/Vengence Paladin 6/Valor Bard 10.

Quicken CME + EB + 1 pact of the blade attack
5d10+25+5d8 = 277.5 * accuracy on round 1.
And then attack + quicken EB for 499.5 damage each additional turn.

Not going to be able to 1 turn Vecna, but shouldn't have an issue keeping concentration and finishing her off turn 2.

Also, Vengeance's advantage works on EB. As an alternative to quicken.
 

ECMO3

Legend
Your argument is that i can't get within 160' without being blasted for 2 rounds and being frightening.

So why would a Barbarian be able to?

My arguement is there is a lot of conditional things you need to make it work and you won't get those conditions often. For example being able to precast multiple spells against Vecna or being able to scout Vecna and prep at all. It is hard to imagine a situation that would ever happen in. Other enemies have similar obstacles that I think you are going to rarely be able to overcome string together the house of cards you need to pull it off.

The Barbarian goes into Rage and attacks. Far simpler to do. Most of the time he is going to outdamage you against legendary boss foes at your level.
 

mellored

Legend
The Barbarian goes into Rage and attacks. Far simpler to do. Most of the time he is going to outdamage you against legendary boss foes at your level.
And the goalposts keeps moving...

No setup, no buffs, no allies, no magic items, and I lose concentration every round. But I will at least assume we can both get into melee range.

Beserker Barbarian with GWM always getting a bonus action and reaction attack with a maul.
2d6+7Str+4Rage = 18 * 4 = 72
+12 GWM + 4d6 Berserker =102
102 / .85 = 86.7 damage per round.

Assuming a d10 weapon for easy calculations. 9 attacks per turn (10 on turn 1).
1d10+5+10d8 = 55.5 damage per attack.
9 *55.5 * 50% = 249.75 damage per round.

CME is doing 288% the damage if the barbarian.

I could lose concentration and quicken CME (7th) and still damage the barbarian. Then I could concentration a third time and quicken CME (6th) and still out damage the barbarian.

Quicken CME 5th + EB
5d10+25+20d8 = 145* 50% accuracy
= 72.5

Not quite. I either need to either make my concentration check, or cast at 6th level to out damage the barbarian.
 

ECMO3

Legend
And the goalposts keeps moving...

No setup, no buffs, no allies, no magic items, and I lose concentration every round. But I will at least assume we can both get into melee range.

No you can try to do all that and I think most of the time it will fail and most of the time the Barbarian will do more damage than CME will.


No setup, no buffs, no allies, no magic items, and I lose concentration every round. But I will at least assume we can both get into melee range.

You keep making "assumptions" that are not likely to happen. A Barbarian can attack effectively from well outside 15 feet, a character relying on CME can't.

You are NOT going to get into melee range on the first round most of the time and pull this off with multiple attacks from within 15 feet. This was the whole reason you were setting this up ahead of time with Longstrider, Find Steed, an ally casting dimension door, another ally casting haste and precasting CME .....
 

mellored

Legend
You keep making "assumptions" that are not likely to happen. A Barbarian can attack effectively from well outside 15 feet, a character relying on CME can't.
Max range of a thrown weapon is 80', and he's giving up advantage for that.

Eldritch Blast + Sharp shooter range is 150".
You are NOT going to get into melee range on the first round most of the time and pull this off with multiple attacks from within 15 feet.
More goalposts moving... but sure.

I get within 15' on the second turn.
Quicken CME, Attack, Action Suge, and deal 249.75 damage.
 

ECMO3

Legend
Max range of a thrown weapon is 80', and he's giving up advantage for that.

He can still attack ....without disadvantage and that assumes he cant throw his Sword or make a different attack from range.

Also 80 feet is A LOT more than 15 feet.

And 80 foot range covers nearly 30 times as much area as 15 feet.


Eldritch Blast + Sharp shooter range is 150".

Sharpshooter does nothing at all for Eldritch Blast and CME is only 15 foot range.

More goalposts moving...

So are the feats your character with 3 classes is taking.

I get within 15' on the second turn.

No you don't. The enemy almost always has more movement/mobility than you. Almost always.

I would venture to say in most cases if this fight went 5 rounds you would NEVER get within 15 feet while concentrating on CME against such a legendary enemy.
 

mellored

Legend
Sharpshooter does nothing at all for Eldritch Blast and CME is only 15 foot range.
Spell Sniper for EB.
Barbarian will need Sharp Shooter or will loses advantage, which is a solid chunk of their damage. As well as a smaller die size.

In fact..
1d8+7+4+2 (thrown weapon style)= 17.5
* 3 * 60% = 31.5
Vs
1d10+5 = 10.5
* 8 * 50% = 42

So yea. Just EB + quicken EB is going to out damage the throwing barbarian, at almost twice the range.
I would venture to say in most cases if this fight went 5 rounds you would NEVER get within 15 feet while concentrating on CME against such a legendary enemy.
249.75 damage burst assumes I lose concentration.
 

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