I'll echo most everyone here by saying avoid Ed Greenwood like the plague. I actually have almost every FR book up to about 2-3 years ago though I still have some to read. I like anything by Mel Odom, lots of Douglas Niles and overall quite a few of the Harper books since they take you all over the place. While I like Elain Cunningham, her books are really fantasy novels that just happen to use some FR locations. Her one series focuses on a class that doesn't even exist in D&D (jordaini - magic resistant monks) and she uses the un/seelie court which doesn't really have much presence in any book.
Best FR Paperback Novel?
- Thread starter HiLiphNY
- Start date
Hm. I like Elaine's books because they *do* get the Realms pretty spot on; Ed remarked on reading Elfshadow how Elaine had got Waterdeep just right. All sort of things are in the Realms that aren't in D&D, or weren't until the Realms put them there.
And the fact remains that recommending people not to read Ed's novels is exactly like recommending someone who wants to read about Middle-earth to stay clear of Tolkien.
And the fact remains that recommending people not to read Ed's novels is exactly like recommending someone who wants to read about Middle-earth to stay clear of Tolkien.
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Desdichado
Hero
I can see that. Although I still gamed both the weeks my third and fourth kids were born!PaulKemp said:
Helped that my mother-in-law was in town to help out thought; frankly I was more in the way then helpful until she went out of twon again.No such luck; the Canton Public Library doesn't have any of your books. I'll buy one anyway; let me know which one you'd recommend I start with.PaulKemp said:
Fair enough. Although I'm not generalizing based on a book or two; I've read dozens of game fiction novels over the years. Although, indeed, some of them weren't bad, many of them were, and few of them were really impressively good. Of course, the same can often be said of other licensed property fictions, like Star Wars novels or the like as well. I think game (or other licensed property) fiction has its own set of difficulties above and beyond "regular" fiction; there's not as much flexibility for the author to change things to suit him, or if he does do so, he tends to "get the setting wrong" and create poorly concieved kitbashes of books, all the while ticking of legions of setting purists who don't like the new direction the author is trying to take it (New Jedi Order is a great example of this, and a major part of the reason I dislike Star Wars fiction in general.) Gaming fiction also has the trap, although few good authors will fall into it, of not balancing the gameplay and the novels. You don't want metagame elements intruding on your fiction (I despise novels that refer to characters by their class name, for instance -- and Rose Estes used to even say that characters couldn't cast spells because they weren't high enough level yet..PaulKemp said:
) but the reverse problem; of making things happen in the novels that are completely inexplicable from the game mechanics standpoint, is just as bad.I also think its difficult to write; authors (and their editors) are rarely very bold, because they don't want to significantly change the setting, and they also want to appeal to the existing audience as much as possible without doing anything that might alienate portions of them.
Another problem is that the books don't actually have to be that good to sell in big numbers; they merely have to include the requisite elements to draw out the fans of the setting, who will buy it regardless of the quality. This, at least, is unique to game (and other licensed properties) fiction.
So, no, I don't automatically write off game fiction, I just recognize that with those challenges, there will probably be fewer game fiction novels I like as opposed to non-game fiction novels.
That, and I also don't read much fiction at all anymore, but that's a different problem altogether.
Like I said, though, I'd be more than happy to read one of your books. Tell me which one I should start with, and I'll try to pick it up either this weekend or early next week.
Desdichado
Hero
That's absolute rubbish. Middle-earth is pretty much only defined through Tolkien's work, but the Forgotten Realms as we know them were written by a committee at TSR, building off what Ed Greenwood sold them. I've read plenty of statements out there that Ed's FR isn't the FR that gamers know, in many respects.Faraer said:
Not only that, nobody's disparaging Ed's knowledge of the setting, it's his writing style that many readers don't like (I personally can't comment, not having read more than a page or two of one of his novels.)
And not only that, most readers aren't reading to learn more about the setting, they're reading fiction because they want to read a good story. If they don't like Ed's writing style, then they aren't going to like the book. The setting isn't the story, it's just the backdrop wherein it takes place.
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PaulKemp
First Post
JoshuaDyal,
I understand your thinking on this now. Your point is narrower than I had assumed. My bad.
An author of gaming fiction does face most of the constraints you mentioned, but so do authors who write in purely literary worlds, from the moment the "rules" of the world are established for the reader. True, the writer who builds and writes in his own world does not inherit those rules, but he or she still faces constraints (albeit self-imposed). This is particularly true for later books, when the rules of the world have been established for the reader. Still, I agree with your overarching point.
I disagree, however, that a shared world/gaming fiction writer is disincentivized to be bold. That simply depends on your definition of bold. If you mean by "bold" that the plot must threaten the world, or otherwise change something universal and fundamental, then yes, a shared world/gaming fiction author is less likely to have that type of threat in his books. But boldness can take other forms -- from personal transformation and growth, to the remaking of a city or region. I've found that there's room for those kinds of things, at least in FR novels.
And, hey! The Canton library doesn't have my books!? Those bloody bastards! I used to study within those very walls when I was in law school. Why I ought to....
Twilight Falling is the title I would recommend. It's book one of the Erevis Cale Trilogy. Cale is my signature character, for whatever that's worth. There are a couple of prequel Cale books, but getting those would involve a more substntial investment of time and money in a different series. Twilight Falling stands alone very well, I think. It makes reference to previous events, but reading of them firsthand is not necessary to (hopefully) enjoying the book.
I hope you'll share your thoughts when your done.
I understand your thinking on this now. Your point is narrower than I had assumed. My bad.
An author of gaming fiction does face most of the constraints you mentioned, but so do authors who write in purely literary worlds, from the moment the "rules" of the world are established for the reader. True, the writer who builds and writes in his own world does not inherit those rules, but he or she still faces constraints (albeit self-imposed). This is particularly true for later books, when the rules of the world have been established for the reader. Still, I agree with your overarching point.
I disagree, however, that a shared world/gaming fiction writer is disincentivized to be bold. That simply depends on your definition of bold. If you mean by "bold" that the plot must threaten the world, or otherwise change something universal and fundamental, then yes, a shared world/gaming fiction author is less likely to have that type of threat in his books. But boldness can take other forms -- from personal transformation and growth, to the remaking of a city or region. I've found that there's room for those kinds of things, at least in FR novels.
And, hey! The Canton library doesn't have my books!? Those bloody bastards! I used to study within those very walls when I was in law school. Why I ought to....
Twilight Falling is the title I would recommend. It's book one of the Erevis Cale Trilogy. Cale is my signature character, for whatever that's worth. There are a couple of prequel Cale books, but getting those would involve a more substntial investment of time and money in a different series. Twilight Falling stands alone very well, I think. It makes reference to previous events, but reading of them firsthand is not necessary to (hopefully) enjoying the book.
I hope you'll share your thoughts when your done.
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Mystery Man
First Post
While this is true I would agree with Farear in that this person is looking for recomendations and to actively discourage this person is to potentially block him from something he may really like. I am not so bothered by the "don't read Ed" comments because I assume (and I hope rightly so) that most people can think for themselves.Joshua Dyal said:
The original Forgotten Realms Campaign Set differs from Ed's Realms in a few well-known and relatively minor ways. Other than certain constraints imposed by TSR and WotC, Ed's novels are much as they'd be if he hadn't sold the setting to TSR. Ed is responsible for orders of magnitude more of the Realms than any other writer, and his continuing involvement (while other novelists and game authors come and go) means he's responsible for the basic feel of the setting -- so starting with a non-Ed book is bad advice because it won't give the most representative introduction that will be most closely followed by other Realms works.
I don't recommend people to read Ed's novels who don't like them, that would be silly. The possibility that a new reader wouldn't like them, a possibility which certainly isn't higher for Ed than for any other author, does not mean a new reader is not best advised to try them first.
I'd say a good secondary world is way more than a backdrop; certainly the Realms is designed to be more.
I don't recommend people to read Ed's novels who don't like them, that would be silly. The possibility that a new reader wouldn't like them, a possibility which certainly isn't higher for Ed than for any other author, does not mean a new reader is not best advised to try them first.
I'd say a good secondary world is way more than a backdrop; certainly the Realms is designed to be more.
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Cthulhudrew
First Post
Uruk said:
Just for the record, the Jordaini do exist (albeit now as a prestige class) in Halruaa. There's an article on the Wizards site- House Jordain of Halruaa- and I believe they also show up again in the recent "Shining South" book.
Can't comment on the Unseelie Court, but I do believe there is precendent for such in previous versions of the game (and I think I've even seen some mention of it in articles on the FR portion of the Wizards site.)
