Best Initiative System?

[Stalker0]

If I got to choose any initiative system, I would choose the card based one from Savage Worlds....still my favorite aspect of that system.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Naturally, I prefer something like this: http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-4th-edition-discussion/318031-side-side-initiative.html, which is at heart very much like what AD&D had, but cleaned up for 3E/4E-style characters.


The key features of a good side-by-side initiative system are:

• It scales well with number of players.
• The declaration phase is quick and general enough to allow wide actions.
• It has provision for handling large number of monsters without breaking the spirit of the system, but not allowing, say, 20 goblins to always go together.

Inevitably, such a system is going to need to put some of that on the DM--which is why cyclic/ranking systems got popular in the first place, despite their flaws. In particular, the point of the declaration phase it to get a general sense of what each character intends so that the DM can make good judgments on any discrepancy that arises. Getting too precise on the players' declarations is counter-productive and slow.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

In other games, I rather like a hybrid of the Hero System version, where different characters have different "speeds" (SPD) as a stat, and thus move more or less often in a given time frame. Hero puts this on a chart, and makes it rigid. They way I like to play such a system is to let everyone attempt to go each "round", but require a check based on SPD to pull it off "right now". If you fail, you get a bonus to your next check, as long as you keep trying the same thing.

The variant we used with Hero was to have the GM roll one die for all participants. Then you compared your SPD + mods to this roll each round to see if you went. The effect is one of controlled chaos, where actions tend to average out over a fight, but you rarely know for sure who is going next.

I haven't tried that with a version of D&D yet, but I could actually see it working better in Next, as a side-by-side variant, than it would have worked in other versions. The flatter math helps a lot. Declare your action (broadly). When your side is up, roll your initiative check. Make it, you go. Fail it, get something like a +5 mod to your next check if you stick with your declaration. (Mods are cumulative, but go away when you succeed on a check.) That's a variant where everyone could go each round, but most rounds will catch someone in mid action.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

My friend recently told me about the initiative system in the new Marvel RPG. Basically the players decide who goes first (the GM may optionally choose one of their charcters). The player whose character went first chooses who goes next. It could be another PC or it could be an NPC. And it goes down the line until everyone's had a turn. The purpose was to easily facilitate teamwork between superheroes but maybe the same could work for D&D.

Although if there are too many "I win" buttons for encounters (primarily in the form of spells), this initiative system probably wouldn't suit D&D well.

If I got to choose any initiative system, I would choose the card based one from Savage Worlds....still my favorite aspect of that system.

How does that one work?

 

[Rune]

The cyclic initiative is simple and I think it fits D&DN design goals.

But if it was to change, I'd suggest a radical idea: get rid of initiative entirely.
What I mean is:
1. Everybody declares their actions. Declarations can be changed until everybody is satisfied with theirs.
2. Everybody rolls for their action.
3. Actions are performed from highest to lowers roll result. Actions that are no longer valid at the point of their resolution are ignored.

This way, your roll decides the success of your action - and it includes the timing. No need to separate initiative from action itself.

I like this idea, but what happens if you choose an action that doesn't require a roll? And does the DM also declare NPC/Monster actions?

(I need to know these things so I can yoink this idea!)

 

[Viking Bastard]

How does that one work?

From what I can google, it's cyclative, but you draw cards instead of rolling dice.

 

[LostSoul]

The cyclic initiative is simple and I think it fits D&DN design goals.

But if it was to change, I'd suggest a radical idea: get rid of initiative entirely.
What I mean is:
1. Everybody declares their actions. Declarations can be changed until everybody is satisfied with theirs.
2. Everybody rolls for their action.
3. Actions are performed from highest to lowers roll result. Actions that are no longer valid at the point of their resolution are ignored.

This way, your roll decides the success of your action - and it includes the timing. No need to separate initiative from action itself.

When I was playing around with initiative in my 4E hack I had something very similar. Eventually I got rid of number 3 and just said that all actions take place at the same time. It was needlessly confusing, since there's already a mechanic that covers who goes first - success or failure on the attack or d20 roll.

The most fiddly/problematic issue is when someone moves out of range - behind a wall or turns and runs from combat. I apply a modifier to AC/Defence based on the distance moved out of range. That allows the attack roll to determine if, for example, the NPC dodged behind a wall before you could hit him with an arrow. It works well enough in play for me but in the text it's unclear as to how to apply it.

(The rule is simple: Target moves out of range: +1 AC/Defence per 5' out of range. What if you dodge 5' behind a wall, though? I count that as if you had used all your movement left for the round - so if you've got 30' of movement, even though you just moved 5' you get a +6 bonus to AC. But I'm not sure how to describe that.)

 

[jadrax]

My friend recently told me about the initiative system in the new Marvel RPG. Basically the players decide who goes first (the GM may optionally choose one of their charcters). The player whose character went first chooses who goes next. It could be another PC or it could be an NPC. And it goes down the line until everyone's had a turn. The purpose was to easily facilitate teamwork between superheroes but maybe the same could work for D&D.

Yeah, that could be worth trying. Maybe get some sort of large double sided tokens so its very easy to track who has and has not gone in a given round.

 

[jadrax]

From what I can google, it's cyclative, but you draw cards instead of rolling dice.

You draw the cards each turn, and some Edges effect it. The main benefit is everyone can see what initiative everyone is on. The downside is, you need to remember to take a deck of cards.

 

[Herschel]

The cyclic initiative is simple and I think it fits D&DN design goals.

But if it was to change, I'd suggest a radical idea: get rid of initiative entirely.
What I mean is:
1. Everybody declares their actions. Declarations can be changed until everybody is satisfied with theirs.
2. Everybody rolls for their action.
3. Actions are performed from highest to lowers roll result. Actions that are no longer valid at the point of their resolution are ignored.

This way, your roll decides the success of your action - and it includes the timing. No need to separate initiative from action itself.

But how would you then have any interrelated attacks/abilities? Even if it's something as simple as attempting to trip an opponent people attacking would then have Advantage against the prone target. That doesn't include buffs/de-buffs and it opens up even more likely scenarios for "You do nothing on your turn".