D&D 5E Best Name For A “Leader” Class?

[LuisCarlos17f]

I suggest polemarch, adalid or caudillo.

Polemarch - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Adalid - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Caudillo - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Well, to be fair... you also aren't getting past the new use of the term 'warlord', so it's a street going both ways.

Nope. There is no usage of the term that fits the class. There is no context in which it is an appropriate name. It has never not meant more or less “military taker over of things by force, usually against the will or in absence of any greater legitimate authority”.
It’s like naming the class “despot” or “tyrant”.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Nope. There is no usage of the term that fits the class. There is no context in which it is an appropriate name. It has never not meant more or less “military taker over of things by force, usually against the will or in absence of any greater legitimate authority”.
It’s like naming the class “despot” or “tyrant”.

Well no, they invented the new way to use it when they chose it for 4E. That was my point.

 

[Tony Vargas]

It has never not meant more or less “military taker over of things by force, usually against the will or in absence of any greater legitimate authority”.

The key thing that's good about it in the context of the D&D class is that it doesn't imply legitimate authority. In fact, in most definitions, the lack of the Warlord having any legitimate authority beyond the strength of his allies is key. A major stumbling block to the very concept of the class is the misperception that it does represent legitimate authority and even place in a military hierarchy, and must be the literal party leader. Marshal, Captain, Commander and other ranks are pretty awful, from that perspective.

It’s like naming the class “despot” or “tyrant”.

Or Sorcerer, Warlock, Assassin, Thief, Necromancer ...

There is so much 'edginess' in the names of classes & sub-classes. And, there's just so much "taking over things by force" implicit in the provenance of D&D classes and the very play of the game, that we ironically call PCs 'murder hobos' ...

...it's a non-issue.

Well no, they invented the new way to use it when they chose it for 4E. That was my point.

Which D&D has never done before, of course...

...except for the Sorcerer (has never meant "innate magical power," but generally, if not an outright charlatan, one claiming magical power derived from evil spirits)… and the Paladin (real definition: Peer of Charlemagne)… and Fighter (boxer) … and magic-user (just made up) … and … well, prettymuch every class to some extent or another.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Or Sorcerer, Warlock, Assassin, Thief...

There is so much "taking over things by force" implicit in the provenance of D&D classes and the very play of the game, that we ironically call PCs 'murder hobos' ...

...it's a non-issue.

Those names fit the concept of the class they name.
Also, the vast majority of people don’t associate “sorcerer” with anything negative.

but the assassin, thief, and warlock are supposed to have names that engender negative feelings. They’re classes where you play something that is normally a bad guy.

the leader-class isn’t that, and shouldn't have a name that evokes bad guys.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Well no, they invented the new way to use it when they chose it for 4E. That was my point.

And if that is okay then it’s also okay to change the name to something that most people don’t associate with violent despotic psychopaths.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Those names fit the concept of the class they name.
Also, the vast majority of people don’t associate “sorcerer” with anything negative.

Don't start with the appeals to imagined 'vast majorities.' You see something negative in the term Warlord. Others may well not. Hell, Robin Hood & his band of armed insurgents carved out a region of Sherwood Forest in defiance of legitimate authority.

And if that is okay then it’s also okay to change the name to something that most people don’t associate with violent despotic psychopaths.

The only thing that gets brought up that might be an added layer of negativity beyond that of most D&D classes is the use, by the media, of Warlord to translate the terms used in Afghanistan for their tribal leaders with armed followers who variously opposed or accepted bribes from the 'coalition' - violent, certainly, like basically all D&D classes, but mainly just ruthless and on the wrong side.
And, I must say 'most' because Cleric and Sorcerer also have been used in the media to translate terms for radical religious leaders who order murders and incite terrorism (certainly 'violent' and more arguably 'psychopaths,' and charlatans who prey upon the superstitious, respectively.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Don't start with the appeals to imagined 'vast majorities.' You see something negative in the term Warlord. Others may well not. Hell, Robin Hood & his band of armed insurgents carved out a region of Sherwood Forest in defiance of legitimate authority.



The only thing that gets brought up that might be an added layer of negativity beyond that of most D&D classes is the use, by the media, of Warlord to translate the terms used in Afghanistan for their tribal leaders with armed followers who variously opposed or accepted bribes from the 'coalition' - violent, certainly, like basically all D&D classes, but mainly just ruthless and on the wrong side.
And, I must say 'most' because Cleric and Sorcerer also have been used in the media to translate terms for radical religious leaders who order murders and incite terrorism (certainly 'violent' and more arguably 'psychopaths,' and charlatans who prey upon the superstitious.

Show me an example of sorcerer in modern western news media, being used to denote anything like what you just described.

And Robin Hood didn’t control the forest as a de facto ruler. He was a bandit/outlaw captain.

I’m done with this exchange. We’ve been here before, and I’m not going to just beat my head on this wall again.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Show me an example of sorcerer in modern western news media, being used to denote anything like what you just described.

A 'sorcerer' promised to help people find love. Instead, he orchestrated a 'witchcraft extortion scheme.'

The love ritual began with candles, alcohol, vegetables and photographs, all carefully arranged. Then clients were told to send photos and videos of themselves reciting graphic statements and performing sex acts to a Paraguayan business specializing in witchcraft to finish the magic spell aimed...

www.sfgate.com

actually, that guy's just all over the internet....damn.

hmmm...not only in media, but in scholarly works:

Witches, Westerners, and HIV

A witch's curse, an imperialist conspiracy, a racist plot—HIV/AIDS is a catastrophic health crisis with complex cultural dimensions. From small villages to the international system, explanations of where it comes from, who gets it, and who dies are tied to political agendas, religious beliefs...

books.google.com

Conspiracy Theories Involving Westerners | 12 | Witches, Westerners, a

Most residents’ theories explaining the genesis of HIV/AIDS in Nkulumane were neither accident theories nor theories implicating health professionals. Instead,

www.taylorfrancis.com

And Robin Hood didn’t control the forest as a de facto ruler. He was a bandit/outlaw

Your own definition included defiance of legitimate authority that's an outlaw.
The objection that the word couldn't possibly be applied to anyone but despots (violent and psychopathic would hardly be unusually for adventurers) is unfounded. It can apply to classic heroes of literature, like Robin Hood, by definition - and was actually used with John Carter, Warlord of Mars. Oh, and Warlord is a Marvel Superhero, too, there hasn't exactly been a hew & cry over that.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

A 'sorcerer' promised to help people find love. Instead, he orchestrated a 'witchcraft extortion scheme.'

The love ritual began with candles, alcohol, vegetables and photographs, all carefully arranged. Then clients were told to send photos and videos of themselves reciting graphic statements and performing sex acts to a Paraguayan business specializing in witchcraft to finish the magic spell aimed...

www.sfgate.com

actually, that guy's just all over the internet....damn.

hmmm...not only in media, but in scholarly works:

Witches, Westerners, and HIV

A witch's curse, an imperialist conspiracy, a racist plot—HIV/AIDS is a catastrophic health crisis with complex cultural dimensions. From small villages to the international system, explanations of where it comes from, who gets it, and who dies are tied to political agendas, religious beliefs...

books.google.com

Conspiracy Theories Involving Westerners | 12 | Witches, Westerners, a

Most residents’ theories explaining the genesis of HIV/AIDS in Nkulumane were neither accident theories nor theories implicating health professionals. Instead,

www.taylorfrancis.com

Your own definition included defiance of legitimate authority that's an outlaw.
The objection that the word couldn't possibly be applied to anyone but despots (violent and psychopathic would hardly be unusually for adventurers) is unfounded. It can apply to classic heroes of literature, like Robin Hood, by definition - and was actually used with John Carter, Warlord of Mars. Oh, and Warlord is a Marvel Superhero, too, there hasn't exactly been a hew & cry over that.

Jfc I don’t care, Tony.
None of those fit what you described.
Calling Robin Hood a warlord is the absolute most absurd leap I’ve seen here in a very long time.
I’m going to temporarily ignore you, so I can engage usefully with the topic at hand.