Best Rules for Automatic Weapons

[Aussiegamer]

You need to be a member to see let alone download the files, sorry not my site.


http://www.d20projects.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=408

the -4, yes but it is s big difference between trying to hit a high AC creature and having a -4 to worry about and hit a 15!

 

[Plane Sailing]

A year or so ago, I setup a chart comparing all the d20 autofire rules I could find. Its probably a bit out of date.
http://www.freewebs.com/hedgehobbit/Autofire.html

Very nice summary, thanks.

 

[Storyteller01]

That doesn't fix the problem that full auto fire ignores armor.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I recommend either the Dragonstar take or the T20 take.

Dragonstar uses the "additional hit per 5 points", (better with feats), a pretty striaghtforward, simple to use, and getting more popular in third party games.

Gets nastier when you allow a defense roll as opposed to a static to hit number. Tends to add a bit of tension during combat.

 

[Storyteller01]

Like Star Wars? Nuh-uh.

The Unearthed Arcana version is a better compromise.

But we do have to keep in mind, Star Wars designers deliberately kept the DR of armor low. Caracters/heros were less likely to wear it, so the game kept the same feel as the movie

 

[Storyteller01]

There needs to be suppresive and an attacking type automatic fire.

DS covered this. Auto fire weapons fires 3- or 5- round bursts. Anyone attempting autofire (you didn't need the autofire feature) created a cone of rounds out to the weapons first range increment. Anyone in range has to avoid an attck (at a -4), then make a reflex roll if hit (DC = the number of rounds sent down range). You only get one attack per target. Keep going until targets stop walking into the kill zone or each round is accounted for, which ever comes first.

 

[Aussiegamer]

It seems a bit low rounds per 6 seconds 3 or 5 rounds, sure as a SA maybe, but not as a FRA. A machine gun fires way more than that per 6 seconds (1 round). This seem to limit the capacity of the automatic weapons a lot.

You account for each round, man that must slow down the combats.

Having a reflex discounts that the attack is not just an area affect but a directed attack as well. I know been there fired that.

Again reflex DC makes fast class types the only way to go for combat, high to hit due to dex and also high ref saves due to class and dex. Very unbalancing to the game.

Another question how does a collosal space craft 1500 feet long make a ref save? I think they can in d20 future and modern rules.

And save for NO damage, come on! The bullets did not even wear down the PC luck. Yes hp are luck and abiltiy and physical stature not just stature. Even a grenade gets to do some damage at 1/2 (ignoring feats and talents). :\

DS: seems to have then included everyone between the firer and the target and not just a sudden burst affect at the target zone. But a firer can AIM the attack to miss the allies.

Most machine guns dont go into area affect until some time down range.

The Bren gun comes to mind as it did not spread out like the MG42.

In fact the rounds stay reasonable tight for beyond close range for most MGs. IMHO

 

[Ranger REG]

But we do have to keep in mind, Star Wars designers deliberately kept the DR of armor low. Caracters/heros were less likely to wear it, so the game kept the same feel as the movie

Perhaps, but I was vocal about using both Defense bonus and DR to stat armor. Unfortunately I was a lone voice. The Star Wars rules (both original and revised) seems to pay lip service to the concept of armor since two badasses have worn them: Vader and Fett. But they might as well not print the rules, as they are more like wardrobe than a functioning piece of military hardware.

BTW, since UA have released, I have ported over the "Armor as DR (and Defense)" rules into my Star Wars campaign, along with d20 Modern autofire rules.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Generally I used the d20M and GT autofire rules in my StarWars game this summer. Also a few house rules that, oddly enough, I didn't realize were sort of Spycraft-esque.

I didn't want to track "ammo" for blasters (the PCs were all Jedi, so, y'know, not much blasting on THEIR end). So I ruled that a Natural 1 would mean the ammo pack was drained after that shot and would take an action to replace. When using burst fire, on a 1 or 2 the ammo pack drained. When using full auto, on a 1,2,3 the ammo pack was drained.

It came up when the Jawa Jedi decided to repair a (really really cruddy) battle droid to follow them around. "Roger Rodger" was pretty much artillery after that, letting fly with autofire whenever possible and even occassionally doing some damage in between swapping power packs. (Mostly it was fun watching 5th level Jedi trying to keep this Thug1/Soldier1 Droid alive in combats designed to challenge, well, Jedi.) On the whole, I think changing the rules worked out. It was actually worth it for a shoddy little droid with a +2 BAB to go auto or burst.

--fje

 

[arscott]

Am I the only one who thinks that the difference between BAB progression and Save progression is going to make that autofire DC = Attack roll thing too powerful at high levels?

While I haven't used automatic weapons enough in games to thing about house ruling autofire, I'd go for the more traditional 10 + 1/2 hd + dex bonus.

 

[C. Baize]

Am I the only one who thinks that the difference between BAB progression and Save progression is going to make that autofire DC = Attack roll thing too powerful at high levels?

Nah. I think Heap thought that, too.

But personally, I feel autofire SHOULD be deadly. That's why I houseruled it that way, to begin with.